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Old 02-04-2016, 10:36 PM
 
Location: Toronto
854 posts, read 584,224 times
Reputation: 672

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Quote:
Originally Posted by saturno_v View Post
Cherry picking at best...what about Chicago (the gun control heaven where you can basically almost not legally own a handgun) vs Dallas??

Los Angeles Vs. Houston??

Canada vs. South Africa?? (Canada #12 in gun ownership vs. #48 for South Africa)

...and so on...


It's only cultural.....number of guns has nothing to do with it.


Who said it's only about gun control? I have said multiple times that the number of guns per capita is problematic. I actually don't think you CAN control it once there are already more guns than people in a given place. The households already have access to all the guns. You can't just change that by arbitrarily changing some law. Well, maybe you can, but it will take generations. The culture is what it is. The only cure is prevention in the first place.

So keep your culture. I'm not making an argument that there is anything wrong with your culture for you. You can have your culture and your gun. Just because I don't want you to be my next-door neighbour doesn't mean I don't think you and your next-door neighbour shouldn't be able to live however you want to.
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Old 02-04-2016, 10:42 PM
 
3,938 posts, read 3,270,826 times
Reputation: 1686
Quote:
Originally Posted by torontocheeka View Post
Who said it's only about gun control? I have said multiple times that the number of guns per capita is problematic. I actually don't think you CAN control it once there are already more guns than people in a given place. The households already have access to all the guns. You can't just change that by arbitrarily changing some law. Well, maybe you can, but it will take generations. The culture is what it is. The only cure is prevention in the first place.

So keep your culture. I'm not making an argument that there is anything wrong with your culture for you. You can have your culture and your gun. Just because I don't want you to be my next-door neighbour doesn't mean I don't think you and your next-door neighbour shouldn't be able to live however you want to.

...as long as you (not meaning you personally but the anti gun crowd in general) do not infringe in my freedom to live in the way I want...because usually the antis are the ones that step in gun owners toes not the way around...leave us alone.
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Old 02-04-2016, 10:44 PM
 
Location: Toronto
854 posts, read 584,224 times
Reputation: 672
Quote:
Originally Posted by saturno_v View Post
Sorry but I have to ask you...what kind of neighborhoods you hang around when in the US??

I walk comfortably at night in what is considered the worst area in Seattle...

It depends. Mostly the tri-state area (New York, New Jersey, Connecticut) and Florida. Also went to West Hollywood and did the whole LA thing 11 years ago. Also went to Boston and Salem. Will likely be going back to Florida for next year's reunion, and then down to North Carolina at some point where my cousin lives (she moved there for work, because in spite of having a uni degree, she couldn't get hired in NY where she was born).
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Old 02-04-2016, 10:45 PM
 
3,938 posts, read 3,270,826 times
Reputation: 1686
Quote:
Originally Posted by torontocheeka View Post
It depends. Mostly the tri-state area (New York, New Jersey, Connecticut) and Florida. Also went to West Hollywood and did the whole LA thing 11 years ago. Also went to Boston and Salem. Will likely be going back to Florida for next year's reunion, and then down to North Carolina at some point where my cousin lives (she moved there for work, because in spite of having a uni degree, she couldn't get hired in NY where she was born).

...and you do not feel safe in these places??

I had wonderful time in these cities/states...including walking at night...
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Old 02-04-2016, 10:45 PM
 
Location: Toronto
854 posts, read 584,224 times
Reputation: 672
Quote:
Originally Posted by saturno_v View Post
...as long as you (not meaning you personally but the anti gun crowd in general) do not infringe in my freedom to live in the way I want...because usually the antis are the ones that step in gun owners toes not the way around...leave us alone.


OK, well, that's projection. I never argued for you to not have guns. I argued for gun-loving Americans to not become the United States of Canada. Two separate issues. I'm trying to stay on topic here.
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Old 02-04-2016, 10:48 PM
 
Location: Toronto
854 posts, read 584,224 times
Reputation: 672
Quote:
Originally Posted by saturno_v View Post
...and you do not feel safe in these places??

I had wonderful time in these cities/states...including walking at night...


No. I don't.

New York City has the dubious distinction of being the only place I've ever been to where as a 13-year-old child I had a grown man come onto me... with both of my parents present.
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Old 02-04-2016, 10:49 PM
 
3,938 posts, read 3,270,826 times
Reputation: 1686
Quote:
Originally Posted by torontocheeka View Post
OK, well, that's projection. I never argued for you to not have guns. I argued for gun-loving Americans to not become the United States of Canada. Two separate issues. I'm trying to stay on topic here.

I agree hat I do not see any advantage for Canada to merge with the US (actually only disadvantages) and no further gain for the US to merge with Canada.
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Old 02-04-2016, 10:56 PM
 
Location: Toronto
854 posts, read 584,224 times
Reputation: 672
Quote:
Originally Posted by saturno_v View Post
In Canada you can legally own exactly the same type of guns you can own in the US...no more no less, including AR-15s...you have to go through more hoops but nothing prevents John Doe from Vancouver or Calgary to own a semi automatic rifle...and to go nuts if a wire trips in his brain....

By the way, Canada has a fairly high gun ownership rate (#12 in the world)...and Switzerland?? #4.....how many mass shooting the poor Swiss have every year??

It's cultural my dear....


Before you say it...are you one of these people that believe you can buy an "assault rifle" in the US?? Let's clarify, no you cannot buy an assault rifle in America...fully automatic weapons were already restricted since 1934 and effectively banned by 1968...you can only own (with a special permit) fully automatic weapons produced before that date and they are all squirreled away in wealthy collector safes and are worth their weight in gold...nobody use them in crimes.

What about these cute Remington 742 that millions of granpas in Canada and the US used for decades to hunt deer in the wooden areas of the continent...they definitely look less "scary" than the black evil AR don't they??...too bad they are much more deadly....firing a cartridge about 3 times as powerful as an AR at the same rate of fire....should we ban these too??


Actually, the Swiss have a higher gun death rate than Canada (in keeping with more guns) and a much higher rate than Japan and the UK, which have fewer guns still.

So to answer your question, Canada has about 1/4th the number of firearm deaths as the States, in keeping with fewer guns here. Switzerland has 1.5 times as many as Canada, and the (rich) countries with the fewest guns per capita have anywhere from 0.06 (Japan) per capita to 0.23 (UK) to 0.93 (Australia). I would be willing to bet that Australia has more guns than Japan.

That being said, once your neighbours have a gun, you have to get one too, so my opinion is keep your guns and good fences make for good neighbours

Last edited by torontocheeka; 02-04-2016 at 11:07 PM..
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Old 02-04-2016, 11:00 PM
 
Location: Nashville, TN -
9,588 posts, read 5,817,689 times
Reputation: 11116
Quote:
Originally Posted by torontocheeka View Post
Wow, oversensitive much? Did I SAY you're hurting anyone? The man said that we're just as religious as Americans are, and I said that is not true. If you want to take offense to that, that is your own problem. I can say that I have a right to like that I live in a largely secular province. I have a right to like that my peers are largely secular and non-practising members of whatever religion they were indoctrinated into. Also, what do Syrian refugees have to do with this conversation? Emotionally manipulative much?

Honestly, you're being a baby. My only point is that cultures - even neighbouring cultures - can be different. Why do you think countries should not have the right to national sovereignty? Do you realize that in making this argument you inadvertently make a strong case for disallowing ALL mass immigration by being rather creepy about it yourself?
What argument is it that I'm making? That Canada or any other country has no right to national sovereignty? I have no idea where you got that from my posts. I made no comment at all on that subject, but if I had, I certainly would not have said anything like that. FWIW, I absolutely do NOT think that Canada and the US should amalgamate. That possibility is not likely to be on the table any time soon, though, so it's not important what I think.

I am not religious (I guess I'm typically Canadian in that respect), so I don't take your comments -- or their insinuations -- personally. I am only pointing out the hypocrisy of this tired argument some Canadians love to use. The one that insists Americans are less intelligent, etc, because they go to church in greater numbers, which, let's face it, IS what you're suggesting. I can only assume, then, that you think similarly about people who might devoutly practice religions other than Christianity (?).
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Old 02-04-2016, 11:05 PM
 
Location: Toronto
854 posts, read 584,224 times
Reputation: 672
Quote:
Originally Posted by newdixiegirl View Post
What argument is it that I'm making? That Canada or any other country has no right to national sovereignty? I have no idea where you got that from my posts. I made no comment at all on that subject, but if I had, I certainly would not have said anything like that. FWIW, I absolutely do NOT think that Canada and the US should amalgamate. That possibility is not likely to be on the table any time soon, though, so it's not important what I think.

I am not religious (I guess I'm typically Canadian in that respect), so I don't take your comments -- or their insinuations -- personally. I am only pointing out the hypocrisy of this tired argument some Canadians love to use. The one that insists Americans are less intelligent, etc, because they go to church in greater numbers, which, let's face it, IS what you're suggesting. I can only assume, then, that you think similarly about people who might devoutly practice religions other than Christianity (?).


Maybe you should take some responsibility for your own assumptions? Did I say that Americans are less intelligent for going to church more? My stepfather is a practising minister. He actually loves going to the States (and Kenya) because the church scene is so vibrant there, especially in Atlanta and Oklahoma. Is he a bigot for wanting to be around lots of Christians or is your ire reserved for secularists who like their culture alone?

Soooo much projection!
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