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No, Vancouver has an agenda to try to try to dress up as much as possible.....I wonder how many of these "pollsters" live in Vancouver.....and , yes from their strict list of liveability factors Vancouver does indeed rank high...from there to becoming "world class city" there is an ocean in the middle....
You are the one that seems childish when you subsitute critical thinking with polls and survery
I post sources only to show you that there are indeed a lot of people that do not buy the Vancouver myth....I do not use them as proof, I can use my own eyes and brain....
You seem to know a lot about Vancouver. Sorry, we have all been misled by propaganda perpetuated by NY Times, Time Magazine, The Economist, etc.
What do you think needs to change to transform the dump and make it a "world class city"?
You seem to know a lot about Vancouver. Sorry, we have all been misled by propaganda perpetuated by NY Times, Time Magazine, The Economist, etc.
What do you think needs to change to transform the dump and make it a "world class city"?
Vancouver is not a dump, but nor is it one of the most livable places on earth, as some stupid rankings suggest year after year.
How can a city be livable when average income is so low compared with living costs? Money is not everything, but life quality does start with money and what your money can buy.
I wonder how often does a typical Vancouver family really goes to the mountains they are so proud of? Probably fewer than 3 times a year on average. Having something you do three times a year doesn't really add much to livability.
And all this urban planning and great transit talk mostly come from people who have never seen a non-North American city and think having a walkable city with convenient public transport is some sort of a big deal. pfsssss.
to actually have something world class that's not given by nature.
what about a vibrant job market that actually provides jobs to well educated and highly skilled people?
what about great museums that contain world class master pieces?
what about ass-kicking night life that attract people from all over the world?
what about world class universities that actually produced nobel laureates?
What about a highly innovative tech industry that invent things?
What about top notch architecture not seen elsewhere?
What about first class theatres/concerts that are 365 non-stopping?
Instead, what Vancouver can say is always cliches such as "we have beautiful mountains and ocean", "we have good transit", "our city is well planned" blah blah.
The city of San Francisco is hardly world class. Vancouver is 1000 miles away from.
What do you think needs to change to transform the dump and make it a "world class city"?
Did I EVER said that Vancouver is a dump?? Did you read my last post?? Can you point at where I said such thing?? No you can't....this is what i mean when I say that the apologists get too emotional about the issue...again that prove my point....
What needs to change to make a real world class city?? Hmm bringing REAL businesses, spending much more for the arts and culture, stimulate the local business environment, reduce the real estate frothiness in collaboration with the federal government avoiding granting PR visas like candies to anybody that just buy RE as investment, investing more in education and innovation....that is a good start.......
Did I EVER said that Vancouver is a dump?? Did you read my last post?? Can you point at where I said such thing?? No you can't....this is what i mean when I say that the apologists get too emotional about the issue...again that prove my point....
Calm down there ...
You are right, you didn't call Vancouver a dump. You simply dismissed 100's of articles by Time Magazine , NY Times, Telegraph, Lonely Planet, Frommer's, etc .. praising Vancouver. You called these positive articles - false propaganda. You also said that people who think Vancouver is a great city .. are delusional.
You posted links to negative articles about the crime, lack of jobs, inflated housing prices. And links to blog articles by ex-Vancouver residents who lambasted the city and called it a dump.
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What needs to change to make a real world class city?? Hmm bringing REAL businesses, spending much more for the arts and culture, stimulate the local business environment, reduce the real estate frothiness in collaboration with the federal government avoiding granting PR visas like candies to anybody that just buy RE as investment, investing more in education and innovation....that is a good start.......
This is rather benign advice and would be applicable to any city in the world. Woundnt it? What city wouldnt benefit from better business, better immigration, better innovation and education? What city in the world has perfected any of these?
How can a city be livable when average income is so low compared with living costs? Money is not everything, but life quality does start with money and what your money can buy.
Ok .. let's play your game ... but fairly. Try and be honest here.
Living costs?
According to your definition, cities like NYC and London can never be "livable" cities since the cost of living is so much higher than Vancouver. You think rent in Vancouver is high? What about Manhattan? What about London? If you look at wages of Public employees (e.g. cops, bus drivers) - London and Vancouver are fairly similar, while NYC is lower. So, for a cop, or a bus driver .... London and NYC must be like hell ... right?
You might feel the need to mention the high NYC salaries. But explain to me how the high salaries on Wall Street help the NYPD cop? And FYI ... just the transit system in NYC employs more (low wage) people than (high paying) Wall Street x 100 !
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I wonder how often does a typical Vancouver family really goes to the mountains they are so proud of? Probably fewer than 3 times a year on average. Having something you do three times a year doesn't really add much to livability.
When I spent a summer in Vancouver ..... I got tremendous pleasure from just viewing the mountains all the time. Being in a beautiful surrounding has an impact that is difficult to quantify. For those who live in Vancouver and have an active lifestyle are hiking or skiing a few times a month ..... much more than your measly estimate of 3/year. Where do you get your stats from?
A guy from Toronto goes to Vancouver to meet his friend. His friend wakes him up in the morning:
Vancouver friend - " Let's go running .... up the Grouse Mountain"
Toronto friend - rubbing his eyes ... barely awake ... "Why, who is chasing us?"
By the way ...
How many times do people from Paris visit the Louvre or Eiffel Tower? And how may New Yorkers work on Wall Street or visit the Stature of Liberty? How many times a year?
They do seem pretty proud of their respective "attractions" ... don't they?
Calm down there ...
You are right, you didn't call Vancouver a dump. You simply dismissed 100's of articles by Time Magazine , NY Times, Telegraph, Lonely Planet, Frommer's, etc .. praising Vancouver. You called these positive articles - false propaganda. You also said that people who think Vancouver is a great city .. are delusional.
Maybe we are getting somewhere...Vancouver may be a "great" city according to the limited list fo factors these studies list....in my opinion (and not only mine) that is FAR from being a world class city...there are many many other factors besides scenery, public transportation and healthcare...
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What city in the world has perfected any of these?
I think Australia has a more balanced immigration and the US has a more robust (read serious) business immigration program....sorry but letting hordes of desperados to dump few thousands of dollars on hopeless sandwich and other retail shops does not qualify as business immigration in my book.....that is just helping property developers monthly cash flow....
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According to your definition, cities like NYC and London can never be "livable" cities since the cost of living is so much higher than Vancouver.
While I would not call London or NYC affordable the career opportunities are order of magnitude higher (and so the chances of attaining a high income) so much to make these cities more balanced on average than Vancouver.
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When I spent a summer in Vancouver ..... I got tremendous pleasure from just viewing the mountains all the time. Being in a beautiful surrounding has an impact that is difficult to quantify.
Again, a beautiful scenery and an outdoor friendly environment is not a Vancouver monopoly...Seattle, Portland, San Francisco, San Diego just to remain on the west coast....with other aspects/opportunities that Vancouver lacks.....Van is not the only city with mountains...in San Diego for example you have beaches and blue ocean where you can actually swim in summer and ski resorts at driving distance in winter....I would say that it offers more diversity than Vancouver....
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For those who live in Vancouver and have an active lifestyle are hiking or skiing a few times a month ..... much more than your measly estimate of 3/year. Where do you get your stats from?
I can mention several cases just on top of my heads of young people working in "services" that rent a room, share a condo in downtown Vancouver and still find costly for them to go sking often (never mind sailing, something is out of ordinary people reach and not only in Van)
I guess it is ok that kind of situation in your 20s but in your 30s sorry but I have other priorities/goals in life....
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By the way ...
How many times do people from Paris visit the Louvre or Eiffel Tower? And how may New Yorkers work on Wall Street or visit the Stature of Liberty? How many times a year?
They do seem pretty proud of their respective "attractions" ... don't they?
You missing the point...I do not go all the time at the top of the Space Needle or at the Museum of Flight either but there are art festivals/venues, music scene that put Vancouver to shame...and I'm in Seattle, you can imagine NYC, Paris or London.....
Maybe we are getting somewhere...Vancouver may be a "great" city according to the limited list fo factors these studies list....in my opinion (and not only mine) that is FAR from being a world class city...there are many many other factors besides scenery, public transportation and healthcare...
Well .... strictly speaking .... all these articles have always called Vancouver the most livable city (not great - which means nothing really). CNN Article: Global Livability Survey
Top 10 most livable cities (unchanged in 2013 from 2012):
1. Melbourne, Australia, 97.5
2. Vienna, Austria, 97.4 3. Vancouver, Canada, 97.3 Melbourne is world's most liveable city for third year in a row - CNN.com
Okay .. I know you disagree. It is all propaganda ....
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I think Australia has a more balanced immigration and the US has a more robust (read serious) business immigration program....sorry but letting hordes of desperados to dump few thousands of dollars on hopeless sandwich and other retail shops does not qualify as business immigration in my book.....that is just helping property developers monthly cash flow....
I know little to nothing about Australia ... so I will not engage. When I visited Sydney a few years ago, I remember noting how expensive everything was .... much more expensive than the most expensive part of Canada.
The US immigration model is brilliant. I think Canada should adopt it .... especially the H1B system - match employee to employer in STEM fields.
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While I would not call London or NYC affordable the career opportunities are order of magnitude higher (and so the chances of attaining a high income) so much to make these cities more balanced on average than Vancouver.
Career opportunities for who? Most of NYC can dream to work on Wall St ....... but what are the odds of that? What about cops in NYC vs Vancouver? What transit workers NYC vs Vancouver? What about Walmart workers NYC vs Vancouver? How do these MAJORITY workers afford NYC? Or should NYC workers live the American dream ---- we will make million $$ some day ??!??!?!?!
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Again, a beautiful scenery and an outdoor friendly environment is not a Vancouver monopoly...Seattle, Portland, San Francisco, San Diego just to remain on the west coast....with other aspects/opportunities that Vancouver lacks.....Van is not the only city with mountains...in San Diego for example you have beaches and blue ocean where you can actually swim in summer and ski resorts at driving distance in winter....I would say that it offers more diversity than Vancouver....
I dont disagree .... Seattle, Portland, San Francisco, San Diego are all great cities with great scenery. Why stop there? Kathmandu in Nepal with the mighty Himalayas is also breath taking. Bangakok in Thailand is a city that never sleeps.
Yet .... I dont know why most (NY Times, Telegraph, Time Magazine) consider Vancouver to be a more livable city than Portland. False propaganda?
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I can mention several cases just on top of my heads of young people working in "services" that rent a room, share a condo in downtown Vancouver and still find costly for them to go sking often (never mind sailing, something is out of ordinary people reach and not only in Van)
I guess it is ok that kind of situation in your 20s but in your 30s sorry but I have other priorities/goals in life....
Hmm .. ok.
What about the 20 something year olds selling coffee and cupcakes in Manhattan? What's their hourly wage? Will they eventually find a job at 1 Wall Street? What's the rent? Health Insurance?
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You missing the point...I do not go all the time at the top of the Space Needle or at the Museum of Flight either but there are art festivals/venues, music scene that put Vancouver to shame...and I'm in Seattle, you can imagine NYC, Paris or London.....
I apologize if I am getting a little personal here.....
By your admission .. you moved to Canada from Italy in your 30's. And now you are dissing culture in Vancouver?
I am sorry .... but you dont get it ..
If I moved to Milan in my 20's I would call the city a pretentious, good for nothing city, that no one in Europe cares about. And A.C. Milan .... with posts that wide ... they'd be scoring more goals ....
Rule 1: Do not quote me out of context
Rule 2: Do not quote things others have said in my post (reply)
Well .... strictly speaking .... all these articles have always called Vancouver the most livable city (not great - which means nothing really). CNN Article: Global Livability Survey
Top 10 most livable cities (unchanged in 2013 from 2012):
1. Melbourne, Australia, 97.5
2. Vienna, Austria, 97.4 3. Vancouver, Canada, 97.3 Melbourne is world's most liveable city for third year in a row - CNN.com
Okay .. I know you disagree. It is all propaganda ....
It becomes propaganda if you equal quality of life = world class......and in these surveys the "quality of life" definition is very restrictive to say the least.
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Career opportunities for who? Most of NYC can dream to work on Wall St ....... but what are the odds of that? What about cops in NYC vs Vancouver? What transit workers NYC vs Vancouver? What about Walmart workers NYC vs Vancouver? How do these MAJORITY workers afford NYC? Or should NYC workers live the American dream ---- we will make million $$ some day ??!??!?!?!
NYC is not only Wall Street....opportunities for many professions, medical, accountant, engineers, scientists, etc....
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I don't disagree .... Seattle, Portland, San Francisco, San Diego are all great cities with great scenery. Why stop there? Kathmandu in Nepal with the mighty Himalayas is also breath taking. Bangakok in Thailand is a city that never sleeps.
Absolutely agree.....I do not limit myself to North America...Santiago Chile, for example, is an absolutely gorgeous city with very high quality of life in my book....
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Yet .... I dont know why most (NY Times, Telegraph, Time Magazine) consider Vancouver to be a more livable city than Portland. False propaganda?
Notice how the ranking jump around around every year in these survey....do you think that has any correlation with reality?? I already gave you the extreme example of ReykjavÃk, Iceland that did rank very high at least in the past....do you really think that ReykjavÃk is that desirable destination??
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Hmmm ok
What about the 20 something year olds selling coffee and cupcakes in Manhattan? What's their hourly wage? Will they eventually find a job at 1 Wall Street? What's the rent? Health Insurance?
I don't know about a kid selling coffee and cupcakes but you have an idea how much a bartender makes in Manhattan?? Or a good waiter in the right place with tips?? Let me tell you...A LOT.....and the kid may go to college and later becoming a highly paid professional and still living in NYC.
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I apologize if I am getting a little personal here.....
By your admission .. you moved to Canada from Italy in your 30's. And now you are dissing culture in Vancouver?
I am sorry .... but you dont get it ..
Yep..moving to Van was a costly mistake for me.....I should have done my homework better and read less famous publication surveys (wink wink)...lesson learned....
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If I moved to Milan in my 20's I would call the city a pretentious, good for nothing city, that no one in Europe cares about. And A.C. Milan .... with posts that wide ... they'd be scoring more goals ....
I totally agree about Milan a city that rank very low in my book.....but economically it is a giant compared to Van...however there are many other choices in this world,...
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