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Canada has extremely high excise taxes on alcohol and tobacco at both the federal and provincial levels, as well as federal and provincial sales taxes on these and everything else; and these taxes are much more than comparable taxes on the same products in the US. (I believe a carton of cigarettes costs about $90 now, depending on province
So is New York City. One pack of cigarettes now costs around $14.50 in NYC, and only 8.55 in New Jersey on the other side of Hudson river, and even less in some other states 3-4 hours away. The Cost of a Pack of Cigarettes, State By State
Yet, we live quite well without borders, even though every time a typical smoker from NYC travels to another state they usually bring back with them cartons of cigarettes.
At any rate, this is why many Canadians get pulled over and searched when entering their own country at a land or bridge crossing--so tax can be collected on all purchases exceeding the duty-free limit.
I see the practical and economic reasons for this. However, in Europe similar discrepancies in the prices of goods and alcohol also exist.
But then I would like to understand how the European countries solved that same issue, because there is a huge difference between alcohol regulations and taxes among the European states. In some, the alcohol laws are very relaxed (France, Germany, Italy, Spain) whereas in others they are very strict and alcohol is extremely expensive (Sweden, Finland, Norway, for instance). Yet, they found a way to remove the borders because, I would assume, they felt that the freedom of movement for people and goods justifies the risk that a couple of cases of wine would be "smuggled" by a wine-drinking Swede that decided to get around Sweden's monopoly on the alcohol sales.
Is smuggling alcohol into Canada such a big, real issue that justifies huge lines at the border that create so much inconvenience for the Americans as well as the Canadians returning home?
Agree. Canada-US border is fuc*ed-up. Unfortunately.
I agree with the OP on this one. It has worked in Europe and I am sure it would work here. I once lived very close to the US Canadian border, and crossed it often. I loved going to Canada and shopping, eating out and visiting the provincial parks. Im not rich but I spent money when I went there. The area I lived in also benefited from Canadian visits to our side as well. Border control was always a pain though, Canadian customs not so bad, sometimes they even smiled or talked to you like a human. US customs is awful, puffed chest authoritarian buffoons who got off on their authority over the poor people waiting in the lines. Im sure they catch a few drugs or illegal activities at the northern border, but not enough of them to justify their existence there.
September 11 made everything so much worse that I have not been to Canada since then, and now I live very far away from the north anyway. Now we need passports, now they detain more people, its just not worth it to go. A great deal of people have stopped crossing out of fear of our border patrol, or just don't want to deal with it. We went a bit nuts here after 9-11, in a way the terrorist won as we gave up a lot of freedom. We now have strip searches at airports, crossing the Canadian border is scrutinized and we have all read about the wiretapping and spying on citizens, even foreign heads of state. (allied ones too) Things have gone wrong with our government in that respect and it needs fixing. It seems like it will be a long time before enough people here can be convinced to open our border, even though there is no threat from Canada. The terrorist did not come from there, and even if they did it would not matter. They can enter Canada, Mexico or the US with equal ease. North America is a big place and we cant guard it all, and even if we could who wants to live in a police state. I would rather take the risk, open borders would bring increased economic activity on our northern border. Europe has benefited from these things.
Some posters have brought up the differences in our laws and problems that could come from that. More guns could enter Canada illegal, and of course the US would have to accept 18 year olds buying liquor in Canada and possibly bringing it back. Europe must have resolved that issue too, as there are differences in laws between all those nations. Maybe it wasn't as much of an issue as some think it would be, either way it hasn't been a big enough deal to close any borders. Open borders is a good thing.
So is New York City. One pack of cigarettes now costs around $14.50 in NYC, and only 8.55 in New Jersey on the other side of Hudson river, and even less in some other states 3-4 hours away. The Cost of a Pack of Cigarettes, State By State
Yet, we live quite well without borders, even though every time a typical smoker from NYC travels to another state they usually bring back with them cartons of cigarettes.
Sure. But that's inside the United States. Heck, I can do the same here: if I smoked cigarettes, I could go to Ontario and stock up on smokes at $75-$80 a carton. There are no customs posts between provinces, just as there are no customs posts between states. But we're not talking about borders between jurisdictions of a federated country here. We're talking about a border between independent countries.
Note that I'm not defending the Canadian approach. For what its worth, I'd like to see the daily duty-free limit for Canadians taking daytrips to the US raised. Right now, at $20, it is absurdly low. This is what causes backups at the border, and excessive searching. If the daily duty-free limit was raised to, say, $200 (as I understand it is for US citizens returning to the US), a declaration of anything up to that would result in a wave-through. When coming home from the US, I don't like sitting for up to an hour or two at the border, waiting for Canada Customs to deal with Canadians who have not declared their daytrip goods any more than you do.
At any rate, this is why many Canadians get pulled over and searched when entering their own country at a land or bridge crossing--so tax can be collected on all purchases exceeding the duty-free limit.
ChevySpoons is right on the money here. Canadian border guards have historically been tax collectors first and foremost.
ChevySpoons is right on the money here. Canadian border guards have historically been tax collectors first and foremost.
Thank you for bolstering my argument, Maclock.
I'll add that for a time, our border guards and our equivalent of the IRS were bundled together and known as the "Canada Customs and Revenue Agency." (CCRA) Yes, for a time, we paid income taxes to the CCRA, even though we may never have stepped outside Canada.
Enough Canadians complained that the Canada Border Services Agency (CBSA) and the Canada Revenue Agency (CRA, i.e. the equivalent of the American IRS) are now separate entities. Still, the CBSA collects duties on goods over the duty-free limit on behalf of the CRA.
Our border guards are tax collectors. Yes, they prevent drug smuggling, terrorism, guns, and illegal workers; but it seems to me that primarily, they collect taxes from Canadians retuning home.
Just my experience, YMMV.
Last edited by ChevySpoons; 02-18-2014 at 02:54 AM..
But then I would like to understand how the European countries solved that same issue, because there is a huge difference between alcohol regulations and taxes among the European states. In some, the alcohol laws are very relaxed (France, Germany, Italy, Spain) whereas in others they are very strict and alcohol is extremely expensive (Sweden, Finland, Norway, for instance). Yet, they found a way to remove the borders because, I would assume, they felt that the freedom of movement for people and goods justifies the risk that a couple of cases of wine would be "smuggled" by a wine-drinking Swede that decided to get around Sweden's monopoly on the alcohol sales.
Is smuggling alcohol into Canada such a big, real issue that justifies huge lines at the border that create so much inconvenience for the Americans as well as the Canadians returning home?
Any EU citizen can bring an unlimited amount of goods (alcohol and tobacco included) for personal use. The goods must be transported by yourself and all local taxes paid.
I believe Swedes buy alcohol and tobacco in Denmark, the Danes go to Germany, the Germans to Poland, and so on.
Most EU countries got a "similar" standard VAT rate (from around 18-27%)
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