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Old 11-04-2013, 12:58 PM
 
Location: Stockholm
990 posts, read 1,939,720 times
Reputation: 612

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Quote:
Originally Posted by barneyg View Post
I think the Finns and Slovenes have quite a bit in common, but I digress.

Perhaps you need to brush up on the history behind the EU -- the original idea was to strengthen economic ties between European countries in order to make armed conflicts and other disruptions less likely, to avoid complex alliance systems like in WWI. In time and especially with the fall of the Soviet Union, it morphed into the idea that when facing international competition from the US, Japan and developing countries, European countries are economically stronger together than apart. Despite your focus on it, Schengen is a means to that strategy, not an end. In that framework, US/Canada economic ties are already very strong, the risk of armed conflict between both countries is very low, and the US especially has no incentive to unite with Canada to be stronger internationally -- the US is too big and Canada is too small for a union to make a difference. But again, I digress.

The UK, Germany and France are important countries but their economic and political weight within the EU is similar -- none of the countries in the EU make up more than 20% of the EU's total population. When Germany wants a change, they need to get at least a few of the other big players on board, they can't do anything alone. Do you think that would ever be achievable in a US/Canada union, the US's superiority complex notwithstanding? The US will never outsource any part of the screening task of "who gets into our great country and who doesn't". In a union where they represent 90%+ of the economic, political and military clout, they would essentially dictate everything on the matter. I don't see why you're surprised that Canadians on this board are reticent to let go of that sovereignty.

As a Canadian who used to live in the US, I've experienced the stupid and outdated process of border crossings as often as anyone. But the alternative (your suggestion) trades off an open border between the US and Canada with more complicated border crossings when coming from anywhere else in the world, and noticeably more red tape and security dramas within the country due to US political interference. I don't think I like that tradeoff.
Keep in mind that the Schengen also includes countries that are NOT in the EU and who has nothing to do with the EU. The Schengen means free travel only, and does not in any way affect the sovereignity of the non-EU countries of Switzerland, Norway, Iceland and Liechtenstein. To join the EU is to partially give up your sovereignity yes, but a free travel agreement like the Schengen is not. An EU type union between the United States and Canada would not work, you are completely right there.

But I do think that a free travel agreement inspired by the Schengen would work, which would not be a political union.

 
Old 11-04-2013, 12:59 PM
pdw
 
Location: Ontario, Canada
2,663 posts, read 3,065,771 times
Reputation: 1789
Quote:
Originally Posted by Deezus View Post
Oh, Canada... Yes, you truly are perfect and as a country you truly are the "specialist snowflake" who always brought an apple for the teacher everying morning and got a gold star for turning in your homework on time.

Oh what's that Quebec? You'd like to tell English Canada "J'men calice!" Not very polite, Quebec!


And what's this--perhaps a little more trouble in paradise:

James Anaya's message to the UN: Canada faces crisis over aboriginal issues | CTV News

Bernie Farber: Why We Can No Longer Call Canada an Advocate for Human Rights

Also aren't moose far more of a hazard to humans than eagles?
Canada might have anglophones and francophones, but there's no such thing as "English Canada" and "French Canada".
 
Old 11-04-2013, 01:06 PM
 
Location: Stockholm
990 posts, read 1,939,720 times
Reputation: 612
Or maybe something like the British/Irish Common Travel Area, just to avoid confusion with the EU?

The Common Travel Area, which is between the United Kingdom and Ireland, has nothing to do with the EU or Schengen and is not a political union. It is simply for free travel between 2 countries where the borders are subject only to minimal identity documents, and has been around way before the EU and Schengen. To join a free travel area does not mean to give up your sovreignity.

Common Travel Area - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

Last edited by Helsingborgaren; 11-04-2013 at 01:18 PM..
 
Old 11-04-2013, 01:22 PM
 
9,961 posts, read 17,481,236 times
Reputation: 9193
Quote:
Originally Posted by pdw View Post
Canada might have anglophones and francophones, but there's no such thing as "English Canada" and "French Canada".
Okay, we'll just call it Quebec and the RoC(rest of Canada)...
 
Old 11-04-2013, 01:48 PM
 
Location: Gatineau, Québec
26,809 posts, read 37,859,817 times
Reputation: 11578
Quote:
Originally Posted by Deezus View Post
Okay, we'll just call it Quebec and the RoC(rest of Canada)...
For PDW, this is probably even worse!
 
Old 11-04-2013, 01:52 PM
 
Location: Gatineau, Québec
26,809 posts, read 37,859,817 times
Reputation: 11578
Quote:
Originally Posted by pdw View Post
Canada might have anglophones and francophones, but there's no such thing as "English Canada" and "French Canada".
t's quite obvious even to any five-year-old even that there is such a thing as English Canada and French Canada (even though there is a bit of overlap in some cases).

There are parts of Canada where cops talk on the radio in French, and parts where they talk on the radio in English.

There are places where McDonald's operates in French, and places where they operate in English.

I wish as much as anybody that the two languages were spread out more evenly across the country and that bilingualism was more of an everyday reality, but history did not turn out that way.
 
Old 11-04-2013, 01:53 PM
 
10,839 posts, read 14,682,467 times
Reputation: 7872
The Australian and New Zealand Governments have had arrangements in place since the 1920s to facilitate a free flow of people between the two countries.

The 1973 Trans-Tasman Travel Arrangement has allowed Australian and New Zealand citizens to enter each other's country to visit, live and work, without the need to apply for authority to enter the other country before travelling.
 
Old 11-04-2013, 02:17 PM
pdw
 
Location: Ontario, Canada
2,663 posts, read 3,065,771 times
Reputation: 1789
Quote:
Originally Posted by Acajack View Post
There are places where McDonald's operates in French, and places where they operate in English
American companies generally don't have a vast knowledge of the linguistic situation here in Canada, to say the least. Are you familiar with Best Buy's Canada Day Sale that was advertised in Quebec (in English, no less) as "Moving Day Sale"?
It would be in the best interest of these corporations to operate bilingually nation-wide, as the situation is far more complex than lines on a map would make it out to be.
 
Old 11-04-2013, 02:37 PM
 
Location: Stockholm
990 posts, read 1,939,720 times
Reputation: 612
Quote:
Originally Posted by botticelli View Post
The Australian and New Zealand Governments have had arrangements in place since the 1920s to facilitate a free flow of people between the two countries.

The 1973 Trans-Tasman Travel Arrangement has allowed Australian and New Zealand citizens to enter each other's country to visit, live and work, without the need to apply for authority to enter the other country before travelling.
Again, if it works between the UK and Ireland, and between Australia and New Zealand, then why not the USA and Canada?
 
Old 11-04-2013, 02:43 PM
 
21 posts, read 24,771 times
Reputation: 28
Quote:
Originally Posted by Deezus View Post
Oh, Canada... Yes, you truly are perfect and as a country you truly are the "specialist snowflake" who always brought an apple for the teacher everying morning and got a gold star for turning in your homework on time.

Oh what's that Quebec? You'd like to tell English Canada "J'men calice!" Not very polite, Quebec!

And what's this--perhaps a little more trouble in paradise:

James Anaya's message to the UN: Canada faces crisis over aboriginal issues | CTV News

Bernie Farber: Why We Can No Longer Call Canada an Advocate for Human Rights

Also aren't moose far more of a hazard to humans than eagles?
When he was extoling some of Canada's virtues Brusan forgot to mention modesty. Ask a Canadian. They can go on for hours about how modest and humble they are, especially when compared to Americans.
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