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Old 03-29-2022, 01:34 PM
 
Location: Elsewhere
88,544 posts, read 84,738,350 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Zoisite View Post
Texans.

.
Oh. You consider them Americans.
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Old 03-29-2022, 01:38 PM
 
Location: Elsewhere
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Quote:
Originally Posted by saibot View Post
This exchange is hilarious!

I have an MA in Linguistics (and please spare me the "you can say anything you like about yourself on an anonymous forum but we don't have to believe it.")

Linguists developed the IPA or International Phonetic Alphabet because it's impossible to express speech sounds precisely without it. Vowels are especially slippery. I (a Californian) may agree with a Canadian that "about" doesn't sound like "a boat," but that doesn't mean we pronounce "about" the same way as each other. And a person who is not trained in Linguistics may or may not notice or be able to put their finger on the difference.

Unfortunately, it's basically only linguists who know the IPA. Trying to express these differences as "abowwt" or "abuwwt" or "abaahht" is really meaningless (sorry). No one knows exactly how the person who writes these approximations is actually saying them. Maybe we should let it suffice to say that everyone has an accent, that there are many regional accents of English (more in the US than in Canada, despite the larger size of Canada, but Canada obviously has variations too) and that even though two people from widely separated areas may honestly believe they sound just like each other, they probably don't.

There are a couple of Canadian news announcers on my local SoCal news stations. They do sound very close to Californians, but there are a few words that give them away. Chris Sedens on KNX 1070, for example, is obviously a Canadian--he has Canadian raising in "about, house" and also pronounces "tomorrow" differently from Californians. There are also announcers from other parts of the US. They may also sound very close--they're surely trained in speaking with a "neutral" accent--but not quite the same. This morning I heard one of these announcers say "orange" and immediately recognized that he must actually be from the New York/New Jersey area, because that's where they say "orange" that specific way.

Maybe we should give it a rest now?
No, no rest. It's fun. And of course I believe you about your area of expertise. I hear trained newscasters say "More on the tin o'clock news" all the time because they just can't master that short e.

And yeah, we even have cities in my home state called Arnge, East Arnge, West Arnge, and South Arnge!
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Last edited by Mightyqueen801; 03-29-2022 at 01:55 PM..
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Old 03-29-2022, 01:52 PM
 
Location: Elsewhere
88,544 posts, read 84,738,350 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Zoisite View Post
I think that's a great idea to give it a rest.

And I have no doubt that it won't be too long before this thread gets merged with the speech thread anyway https://www.city-data.com/forum/cana...ech-vowel.html which is where it's required to have been started in the first place and is where speech questions in the Canada forum always end up.

.
Ok. I forgot there was that thread. I'm gonna stop tawkin' now and put it where it goes.
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Old 03-29-2022, 02:03 PM
 
Location: Elsewhere
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Originally Posted by ChevySpoons View Post
Thinking about this more, it seems to me that while Americans easily acknowledge that there are different accents within their own country (Louisiana is not Texas which is not North Carolina which is not New York which is not California, and so on), they fail to realize that not all countries can do the same thing--have regional variations on English pronunciations within the country.

An English accent might be from Kent or Cornwall or Yorkshire, and while they are all identifiably English, they are definitely not alike; nor are they Irish or Scottish or Welsh (as a Welsh friend proudly says, "I'm not English," though to my ears, he sounds like he comes from downtown London). And that's on two small islands.

Americans need to realize that no matter how big the US is, Canada is bigger, and can have just as many variations in accent. It's impossible to broadly say "Canadians say 'aboot'," without recognizing that British Columbians, Albertans, and others in western Canada, say no such thing; that Canadians in the Ottawa Valley say, "abaowt" rather like Americans, and the only Canadians who say "aboot" tend to be in Nova Scotia (Cape Breton, specifically, but not necessarily Halifax and Yarmouth) and Newfoundland. It would be like claiming that all Americans, from California, Washington, Florida, Texas, and Maine, call a certain eastern state, "Noo Joisey." (With a nod and a wink to Mightyqueen.) They just don't, and neither do all Canadians say "aboot."

Of course, our French-speaking Canadian friends can say, "à propos de," which translates as "about," and certainly does away with the whole "about/aboot" thing in English. Maybe our French-speaking friends are onto something here.
I remember Julie Andrews on TV once doing a whole run-through of different UK accents.

I love the Yorkshire accent in the old All Creatures Great and Small series. The Inspector on Murdoch Mysteries does a good job of it, too.
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Last edited by Mightyqueen801; 03-29-2022 at 02:25 PM..
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Old 03-29-2022, 11:43 PM
 
Location: Alberta, Canada
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Acajack View Post
Almost perfect, with the dash in the right place and everything!

You're just missing an apostrophe after the "Qu" which I even assume was a typo as opposed to you not knowing that.

So an A- for you!
Thanks, AJ! Yes, it was a typo. But glad to hear that I did well. Merci beaucoup!
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Old 03-30-2022, 05:20 AM
 
Location: Gatineau, Québec
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Mightyqueen801 View Post
No, no rest. It's fun.
Agreed. No harm in a fun discussion.
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Old 03-30-2022, 05:22 AM
 
Location: Gatineau, Québec
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Mightyqueen801 View Post
I have never ever heard anyone, American or otherwise, pronounce "about" that way. Granted, I have spent most of my life on the east coast.
My "abaaaahhht" example is probably the same thing as Americans who say Canadians say "aboot".
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Old 03-30-2022, 08:16 AM
 
14,302 posts, read 11,688,680 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Acajack View Post
My "abaaaahhht" example is probably the same thing as Americans who say Canadians say "aboot".
The closest I can figure, "abaaahhht" is either "a bat" or "a bot." And I'm quite sure that the vast majority of Americans do not rhyme "about" with either of those.
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Old 03-30-2022, 08:58 AM
 
Location: Elsewhere
88,544 posts, read 84,738,350 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Acajack View Post
My "abaaaahhht" example is probably the same thing as Americans who say Canadians say "aboot".


I get it. After all, I'm from New Jersey. Our accent is portrayed in exaggerated and stupid ways in TV and movies all the time.

When I tell people I spend time in Canada, some of them think it's funny to do the exaggerated "Ehhhhh" thing.

At least I laugh at myself! We don't realize how we sound to others until they say something (or snicker). I spend a lot of last year in hospitals and other medical facilities speaking for someone who has difficulty making himself understood. (In some cases, because of COVID, they told me I could not go in with him, so I would wait patiently for about five minutes until a nurse would call me and tell me to come on in and help translate...) Invariably, at some point when speaking with medical staff, one of them would say, "Hey, are you from the states? Because I had this friend from New Jersey and you sound just like her."
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Old 03-30-2022, 11:18 AM
 
Location: Gatineau, Québec
26,875 posts, read 38,014,760 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by saibot View Post
The closest I can figure, "abaaahhht" is either "a bat" or "a bot." And I'm quite sure that the vast majority of Americans do not rhyme "about" with either of those.
Completely unscientifically, it's probably close to "a bat" to my ear.

Definitely not "a bot" which contains a way too Britishy "OT" sound for the way most Americans sound like!
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