Welcome to City-Data.com Forum!
U.S. CitiesCity-Data Forum Index
Go Back   City-Data Forum > World Forums > Canada
 [Register]
Please register to participate in our discussions with 2 million other members - it's free and quick! Some forums can only be seen by registered members. After you create your account, you'll be able to customize options and access all our 15,000 new posts/day with fewer ads.
View detailed profile (Advanced) or search
site with Google Custom Search

Search Forums  (Advanced)
Reply Start New Thread
 
Old 01-29-2014, 11:18 AM
 
Location: East coast
613 posts, read 1,171,901 times
Reputation: 336

Advertisements

Inspired by this post on the thread
https://www.city-data.com/forum/world...g-america.html

Quote:
Originally Posted by Acajack View Post
It is sort of true. But except for a few institutional things like parliament and law, Canada has jettisoned almost all of its Britishness at this point and so it's a fairly remote and "outlier" member of the Commonwealth now.

Canada would be more of a cold version of Australia (or Australia a warm version of Canada) if it hadn't embraced the US influence so seamlessly and turned away from the UK.

Of course, Canada never was as "British" as Australia was, and much of "English Canada" was actually initially founded by people who moved north from the U.S. after the American Revolution.

But for a long time these Anglo-Canadians did assert their Britishness quite strongly (sometimes in a slightly facticious way I must say) in order to distinguish themselves from their neighbours to the south.


This Britishness would progressively decline but many elements of it persisted well into the 1960s I would say, but since then as I said Canada has really turned its glaze southwards.
Could this have likely happened? If Canada (at least the English-speaking parts) tried to cling on to its Britishness to assert itself culturally, could it have been the Australia of the northern hemisphere, even though it's beside the United States?

Or would it have not been possible, given the strength of the ties it had to its neighbor southward, and it would be inevitably as American-influenced as it is today.

If Canada did try to cling to its Britishness today, perhaps Americans would find visiting it a much more "foreign" experience, for there would be a strongly British country which stands out from the US even outside of Quebec, rather than just (minus Quebec) another version of America with the metric system and less guns.
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message

 
Old 01-29-2014, 11:35 AM
 
Location: Gatineau, Québec
26,883 posts, read 38,144,697 times
Reputation: 11652
It's worth emphasizing what I said in the second paragraph - that Canada never was "wholly" British.

For example, Canadians have never said "lorry". It's always been truck like in the States. They've also never said "lift" for elevator.

But they did used to say "chips" for french fries, and the transition to the American term only became complete (except for recent immigrants from the Commonwealth) in Canada maybe 20 or 30 years ago.

Canadians have also pretty much always been intertwined with the US when it comes to sports.
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
 
Old 01-29-2014, 11:46 AM
 
Location: Vancouver
18,504 posts, read 15,617,227 times
Reputation: 11937
This begs the question. Were United Empire Loyalists American or British? Saying "much of "English Canada" was actually initially founded by people who moved north from the U.S. after the American Revolution. " might give the impression that these first settlers weren't British in any way. A century later...
From Mccord Museum's page.
"According to the 1870-1871 census of Canada, the population of the nation was composed mainly of people of British origin (2.1 million) and French origin (1 million). In addition to the German-speaking immigrants (203,000) and to the Aboriginals (136,000 in 1851), there were small groups of people who had arrived from several other countries."

The amount of U.S. citizens isn't given in the above comment, but wiki does say…

"Americans have moved to Canada throughout history. During the American Revolution, many Americans loyal to the British crown left the United States and settled in Canada. These early settlers are called United Empire Loyalists. Many Black Canadians are descendants of African American slaves (Black Loyalist) who fled to Canada during the American Revolution. Similar waves of American immigration occurred during the War of 1812. The Black Refugees in the War of 1812 also fled to Canada and many American slaves also came via the Underground Railroad, most settling in either Halifax, Nova Scotia or Southern Ontario.
In the early 20th century, Canada invited 500,000 to one million American settlers into the farming regions of Prairie Provinces such as Alberta, Manitoba and Saskatchewan. In the 1930s, after World War II, and again the 1970s, waves of Americans, many from [1] and [2]immigrated to Canada to work in the country's growing oil industry.[citation needed] During the Vietnam War era, many American draft dodgers fled to Canada to avoid the war. About 10,200 Americans moved to Canada in 2006; this was the highest number since 1977.[2]"

It may really vary in different parts of the country, as the immigration to the prairies shows. There really is no ONE English Canada, but several.
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
 
Old 01-29-2014, 11:49 AM
 
Location: East coast
613 posts, read 1,171,901 times
Reputation: 336
So, if it tried to cling on to its British heritage, could at most, it have been a hybrid culture in many parts of Anglo Canada, one that is halfway between the American culture the Loyalists had carried with them then and the British culture they were loyal to (rather than wholly dominated by American culture with only relics of the British past as it is today)?
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
 
Old 01-29-2014, 12:16 PM
 
Location: Vancouver
18,504 posts, read 15,617,227 times
Reputation: 11937
Quote:
Originally Posted by markovian process View Post
So, if it tried to cling on to its British heritage, could at most, it have been a hybrid culture in many parts of Anglo Canada, one that is halfway between the American culture the Loyalists had carried with them then and the British culture they were loyal to (rather than wholly dominated by American culture with only relics of the British past as it is today)?
Anglo Canada at that time was quite small compared to today. We are talking mainly about parts of what is now southern Ontario and southern and northern Quebec and Labrador, which became in 1791 Upper and Lower Canada.
Perhaps someone with a better knowledge of history will comment, but I question how strong American culture was at that time.
Also there was no Canada in the sense of a country, it was British territory so the only " clinging " may have been to keep it British Territory. I'm not sure they worried about terms so much, since even at that time an American accent was still forming in those days, I doubt Americans had any influence language wise at that time. That must of evolved later.

http://dialectblog.com/2012/07/04/ho...rief-thoughts/

As Anglo Canada grew, different immigration patterns have influenced it. Friends from the prairies for example say MELK for MILK, which sound very American to my ears.
Anglo's in Ontario quite often sound more American when saying ROOF for example. I often hear PRAH-CESS
for PRO-CESS coming from someone who grew up or lives in Ontario. I very seldom here it that way in B.C.

Some of what is being referred to as clinging ( I don't like the term, it sounds of desperation ) is a reaction to the U.S.'s influence. Defending institutions or core values is what I would expect of any sovereign nation.
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
 
Old 01-29-2014, 12:53 PM
 
Location: Gatineau, Québec
26,883 posts, read 38,144,697 times
Reputation: 11652
The only clinging to a Canadian British heritage I see is in the modern era.

Before that, as has been said, people were not really preoccupied with clinging to anything. They lived in Canada because they preferred to be under the British Crown and that's it. That's who they were.

And this probably lasted for a fairly long time as the US was a bit of a mess for much of the 1800s, culminating in the Civil War of course.

It's only really at the turn of the 20th century that the US started to emerge as a superstar country, and that (some) Canadians started to feel uneasy about being its shadow and actively looked for ways - both authentic and artificial - to assert their distinctiveness.
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
 
Old 01-29-2014, 01:02 PM
 
Location: Vancouver
18,504 posts, read 15,617,227 times
Reputation: 11937
Quote:
Originally Posted by Acajack View Post
The only clinging to a Canadian British heritage I see is in the modern era.

Before that, as has been said, people were not really preoccupied with clinging to anything. They lived in Canada because they preferred to be under the British Crown and that's it. That's who they were.

And this probably lasted for a fairly long time as the US was a bit of a mess for much of the 1800s, culminating in the Civil War of course.

It's only really at the turn of the 20th century that the US started to emerge as a superstar country, and that (some) Canadians started to feel uneasy about being its shadow and actively looked for ways - both authentic and artificial - to assert their distinctiveness.
I think also having to explain to many people in the world that Canada is not the U.S.A. had something to do with it.
It's not clinging but asserting your heritage.
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
 
Old 01-29-2014, 01:04 PM
 
Location: Gatineau, Québec
26,883 posts, read 38,144,697 times
Reputation: 11652
Quote:
Originally Posted by Natnasci View Post
This begs the question. Were United Empire Loyalists American or British? Saying "much of "English Canada" was actually initially founded by people who moved north from the U.S. after the American Revolution. " might give the impression that these first settlers weren't British in any way. A century later...
.
Oh, the Loyalists were probably still pretty British at the time, even those who were born in the 13 colonies would still have retained British characteristics. They weren't "American" in the sense of Americans in 2014 that's for sure.

But they would have been on this continent long enough to take on (North) American characteristics as well.

And as you yourself stated, although settlement happened in a piecemeal way all over the country, people moving here from south of the border (whether they were more like Pilgrim William Bradford or country singer Toby Keith I am not sure!) did play a role in establishing "anglo" society in much of Canada, from east to west.

It's not a good or a bad thing. Just a fact.
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
 
Old 01-29-2014, 01:18 PM
 
Location: Vancouver
18,504 posts, read 15,617,227 times
Reputation: 11937
Quote:
Originally Posted by Acajack View Post
Oh, the Loyalists were probably still pretty British at the time, even those who were born in the 13 colonies would still have retained British characteristics. They weren't "American" in the sense of Americans in 2014 that's for sure.

But they would have been on this continent long enough to take on (North) American characteristics as well.

And as you yourself stated, although settlement happened in a piecemeal way all over the country, people moving here from south of the border (whether they were more like Pilgrim William Bradford or country singer Toby Keith I am not sure!) did play a role in establishing "anglo" society in much of Canada, from east to west.

It's not a good or a bad thing. Just a fact.
True. The OP's question is confusing to me. Is Australia really more British? Is it just the stark accent difference that makes the OP think this.
Personality wise, I compare Australians to Americans and Canadians to New Zealanders.
I'm trying to think what is more British in Australia, besides rugby and cricket? In fact the monarchy is more popular in Canada than Australia. We don't have States etc.

On the surface it may look like Anglo Canada ( all of them ) is more British than Australia but both countries are DEFINITELY neither.
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
 
Old 01-29-2014, 01:35 PM
 
Location: Gatineau, Québec
26,883 posts, read 38,144,697 times
Reputation: 11652
Quote:
Originally Posted by Natnasci View Post
True. The OP's question is confusing to me. Is Australia really more British? Is it just the stark accent difference that makes the OP think this.
Personality wise, I compare Australians to Americans and Canadians to New Zealanders.
I'm trying to think what is more British in Australia, besides rugby and cricket? In fact the monarchy is more popular in Canada than Australia. We don't have States etc.

On the surface it may look like Anglo Canada ( all of them ) is more British than Australia but both countries are DEFINITELY neither.
Have you ever been to Australia? Never in a million years would I say that Canada is more British than Australia. Superficial stuff like support for the monarchy notwithstanding. (And we all know what is behind Canadian support for the monarchy.)
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
Please register to post and access all features of our very popular forum. It is free and quick. Over $68,000 in prizes has already been given out to active posters on our forum. Additional giveaways are planned.

Detailed information about all U.S. cities, counties, and zip codes on our site: City-data.com.


Reply
Please update this thread with any new information or opinions. This open thread is still read by thousands of people, so we encourage all additional points of view.

Quick Reply
Message:


Over $104,000 in prizes was already given out to active posters on our forum and additional giveaways are planned!

Go Back   City-Data Forum > World Forums > Canada
Similar Threads

All times are GMT -6.

© 2005-2024, Advameg, Inc. · Please obey Forum Rules · Terms of Use and Privacy Policy · Bug Bounty

City-Data.com - Contact Us - Archive 1, 2, 3, 4, 5, 6, 7, 8, 9, 10, 11, 12, 13, 14, 15, 16, 17, 18, 19, 20, 21, 22, 23, 24, 25, 26, 27, 28, 29, 30, 31, 32, 33, 34, 35, 36, 37 - Top