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In the context of this topic, 'borders closed' means borders closed as in not letting any American into Canada like we can move around freely in the EU.
The ski-boat and two car garage in a country where a large part of the population has no access to health care, lives on low pay or minimum wage jobs or completely on food stamps are exactly the characteristics of a third world country. The happy few have it all and the rest of them are struggling or just straight out poor.
I even got the Americans themselves to admit parts of their country look third world.
I understand completely what you're saying about open versus closed but the free movement is not an issue unless work visas come into the game mix. All parties are free to move to and fro for up to a 6 month stay.
You need to understand that most have health coverage of some kind, life on low pay still outstrips life in a third world country for its (happier now with the spelling of "its" versus "it's") amenities of necessities of life.
I agree totally with the shameful aspect of numbers needing food assistance but that hardly equates to a third world country where no such facility would even be available.
They are not the Utopia they sometimes claim to be but neither are they starving in the streets or lining up for first-come-first-serve fresh food at a limited number of outlets to eventually go home empty handed.
Yes the middle class is under siege but the problem is recognized now and the two major U.S. parties ignore it at their peril. I'm hearing more and more often that neither of the two are fulfilling any of their citizens expectations. Those parties can continue to underperform but not for much longer before the chit hits the fan.
We in Canada would like to believe we're better represented but it's becoming more apparent every day that we're on a slippery slope.
There are far more demarcations than just the 'happy few who have it all' and the 'poor'. There's a whole bunch of categories between those two extremes.
And parts of the country "looking" third world does not equate to the country "being" third world. There are slums all over the planet in every country, even Canada. That will quite probably continue regardless of politics.
Canada and the United States should have a Schengen-like arrangement. End of story. It's completely crazy that these two countries, countries which are closer in almost every conceivable way than any other pair of countries on the face of this Earth, don't currently have this kind of relationship. Whether the political classes in Ottawa and Washington can get over themselves and implement it is a whole other question, however.
While I understand what you're saying, the rest of Canada has the pleasure of prosperous cities on it's borders. I've got Detroit. And while I love Detroit, I have to say.....no thanks.
They are not the Utopia they sometimes claim to be but neither are they starving in the streets or lining up for first-come-first-serve fresh food at a limited number of outlets to eventually go home empty handed.
Well, there is third world and there is third world. Mexico and Brazil are third world countries where people are generally not starving in the streets either and there is Ethiopia where people are actually starving in the streets. The US could(I am not saying they are now) resemble the former like Brazil one day if they keep trying hard enough like they are doing now.
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And parts of the country "looking" third world does not equate to the country "being" third world. There are slums all over the planet in every country, even Canada. That will quite probably continue regardless of politics.
They have a few too many bad areas for my taste. There is a very interesting old topic here at city-data with great pictures and videos that shows how bad it gets. And it does get pretty bad all over the country. It doesn't nearly get that bad over here, compare those to 'the ghetto' (considered the worst low income, crime ridden area) in my country.
I guess it also depends on your own standards what you would call a slum or ghetto. I remember the first time I went to Chicago and got driven around through Cicero and other parts I really had a cultural shock. Never seen such an ugly mess in my life before. And Chicago is not even the worst place in the US. I'd say, for my standards, they are already well on their way of becoming third world even today. And some of them will try to escape that misery and head for Canada if you let them(assuming Canada is in a better shape than the US. Something I had always assumed to be true so far). Isn't Detroit actually dangerously close to Canada?
Well, there is third world and there is third world. Mexico and Brazil are third world countries where people are generally not starving in the streets either and there is Ethiopia where people are actually starving in the streets. The US could(I am not saying they are now) resemble the former like Brazil one day if they keep trying hard enough like they are doing now.
They have a few too many bad areas for my taste. There is a very interesting old topic here at city-data with great pictures and videos that shows how bad it gets. And it does get pretty bad all over the country. It doesn't nearly get that bad over here, compare those to 'the ghetto' (considered the worst low income, crime ridden area) in my country.
I guess it also depends on your own standards what you would call a slum or ghetto. I remember the first time I went to Chicago and got driven around through Cicero and other parts I really had a cultural shock. Never seen such an ugly mess in my life before. And Chicago is not even the worst place in the US. I'd say, for my standards, they are already well on their way of becoming third world even today. And some of them will try to escape that misery and head for Canada if you let them(assuming Canada is in a better shape than the US. Something I had always assumed to be true so far). Isn't Detroit actually dangerously close to Canada?
0.5 miles. I don't know what you mean by "dangerously close". lol
0.5 miles. I don't know what you mean by "dangerously close". lol
That even people who can't afford vehicular or public transportation anymore could walk into Canada and benefit from its social welfare if they were freely allowed to just move to Canada.
Obviously, my arguments are somewhat flawed. Most Americans would never move abroad even if they were allowed to by other countries because they are simply too ignorant to understand there are far better countries out there than the US. Just like an American I met in Texas. He kept on talking about how the US is the best in everything, yet he had to drive to Mexico every month to buy his medication because he could not afford to buy them in the US. Really, how can a country where you can't afford medication to keep you healthy be the best country to live in? So, Canada should be safe(for now).
Well, there is third world and there is third world. Mexico and Brazil are third world countries where people are generally not starving in the streets either and there is Ethiopia where people are actually starving in the streets. The US could(I am not saying they are now) resemble the former like Brazil one day if they keep trying hard enough like they are doing now.
They have a few too many bad areas for my taste. There is a very interesting old topic here at city-data with great pictures and videos that shows how bad it gets. And it does get pretty bad all over the country. It doesn't nearly get that bad over here, compare those to 'the ghetto' (considered the worst low income, crime ridden area) in my country.
I guess it also depends on your own standards what you would call a slum or ghetto. I remember the first time I went to Chicago and got driven around through Cicero and other parts I really had a cultural shock. Never seen such an ugly mess in my life before. And Chicago is not even the worst place in the US. I'd say, for my standards, they are already well on their way of becoming third world even today. And some of them will try to escape that misery and head for Canada if you let them(assuming Canada is in a better shape than the US. Something I had always assumed to be true so far). Isn't Detroit actually dangerously close to Canada?
I'm understanding your point but a change to an "open border" from a controlled border presumes a change in thinking would immediately happen. Why?
Those who wish to come over, or "escape", merely have to saddle up their clunker, steal enough gas, and putter across now. How would removing the necessity of them having a passport for their return to the U.S. prevent them from escaping to Canada?
They have only to lie to the Canadian border agent upon entering when asked that all important "have you ever been arrested?" Under todays conditions, worst case: they merely get refused entry, best case: "enjoy your stay". I'm sure that if there were hoards wishing to escape to Canada they'd have already been taking that little gamble.
The average U.S. citizen has, even the criminal variety, from the date of their birth, been indoctrinated with Canada's negatives to the point most criminals would sneeringly state: "what the hell would I want to go to that frozen hell hole Canada for"? I don't see that changing if the guy in the kiosk is removed
Well, there is third world and there is third world. Mexico and Brazil are third world countries where people are generally not starving in the streets either and there is Ethiopia where people are actually starving in the streets. The US could(I am not saying they are now) resemble the former like Brazil one day if they keep trying hard enough like they are doing now.
Are you an actor? Did you major in theatre at university? I ask only because you have a flair for the dramatic.
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Originally Posted by drro
I guess it also depends on your own standards what you would call a slum or ghetto. I remember the first time I went to Chicago and got driven around through Cicero and other parts I really had a cultural shock. Never seen such an ugly mess in my life before. And Chicago is not even the worst place in the US. I'd say, for my standards, they are already well on their way of becoming third world even today. And some of them will try to escape that misery and head for Canada if you let them(assuming Canada is in a better shape than the US. Something I had always assumed to be true so far). Isn't Detroit actually dangerously close to Canada?
North Lawndale, a Chicago neighbourhood which borders Cicero, is a bombed-out dump that burned almost 50 years ago in the riots that followed the assassination of Martin Luther King, Jr. When that happened, people who were already thinking of decamping for the safety then offered by suburbs left in droves. They also left neighbourhoods like Austin and Woodlawn. Similar flights to safety were also experienced in several other American cities.
There are some hardscrabble areas in the general vicinity of Cicero, but Cicero itself isn't in bad shape. There are, admittedly, quite a few rough areas on the south and the west sides of Chicago, but you'd be very unlikely to live in any of them for a variety of reasons. Chicago is a great city on the whole. You need only ensure that you stick to the places where people like you should be.
As for trying to escape the misery and head to Canada, many of the people who live in the areas you think are on their way to becoming third world are prevented by finances, motivation, lack of education or criminal history from relocating to better neighbourhoods, cities or states in their own country. Why are you convinced that they would head north of the border, to a different country, a country which is famously cold and typically much more expensive than the country they know and which is not likely to offer people who are similarly disadvantaged any real opportunities?
You'd also do well to remember that Canada doesn't have a large black population. I mention that because a disproportionate number of the impoverished and the destitute in the United States are black folks and those impoverished and destitute black folks may not be crazy about the idea of moving to areas where they would be surrounded by white folks and they may not be welcome because they're not high achievers. (I'll leave it to others, edwardsyzzurphands included, to speak to the invisible racial barriers which seem to confront people of colour in Canada.)
That even people who can't afford vehicular or public transportation anymore could walk into Canada and benefit from its social welfare if they were freely allowed to just move to Canada.
Well, I would have to assume you would still need Canadian citizenship to recieve any benefits.
I'd be more worried about the criminal elements having easy access.
I think both countries would be better off if its citizens could move freely from one country to another or apply for jobs in each country without worrying about getting visas. It gives each country's citizens more options. Has this ever been considered?
USA is already like the EU.. 50 different states, all open borders, most share currency, trade freely with each other, each state (country in eu) has to follow federal (EU) law.
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