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The second photo is what a lot of people (including me) think our Yonge st and Queen W look like before actually seeing it.
It's also what Queen would look like if we replace street parking with dedicated LRT tracks. I heard that a lot of people are against creating ROW streetcar tracks in Toronto, but I think eventually it may have to come down to if transit demand and population were to grow at current rates.
I've grown up in Toronto, so it is difficult for me to be very objective. But many people I know who have visited Toronto from other major cities around the world tell me the same thing - Toronto looks ugly (especially the skyline).
I was recently watching the Anthony Bourdain show on a travel channel, and in one of his older episodes he visits Toronto. And right when his cab pulls in towards downtown from the airport he says - "This is an ugly city" ...
Comparing apples to oranges. Just because Berlin doesn't have a Dundas Square or messy streets with tiny sidewalks doesn't mean it's any less energetic. If Friedrichstrasse, Kurfürstendamm, or Alexanderplatz doesn't equate to "bustling and teeming with people" I don't know what is. I spent 3 yrs of university in Berlin and with family who are native Berliners. Picture speaks a thousand words:
Kurfürstendamm
Friedrichstrasse:
Alexanderplatz:
Potsdamerplatz:
The arts culture of Berlin is way more palpable in Berlin than in Toronto, but it has nothing to do with how packed the streets are with people. These things don't necessarily rely on each other, All I said was downtown Toronto is way more bustling than any one borough of Berlin, and anyone who spends time in Berlin and Toronto would agree. I actually prefer Berlin overall, but what I said I still stand by. I know Berlin well.
The arts culture of Berlin is way more palpable in Berlin than in Toronto, but it has nothing to do with how packed the streets are with people. These things don't necessarily rely on each other, All I said was downtown Toronto is way more bustling than any one borough of Berlin, and anyone who spends time in Berlin and Toronto would agree. I actually prefer Berlin overall, but what I said I still stand by. I know Berlin well.
Downtown Toronto is bustling and dense by ANY standard when comparing with other N.A. cities, except parts of places like NYC or SF. Period. Not sure why you need to compare one very specific area of Toronto with the entire city of Berlin. I'm sure you know Berlin well - like a an earlier poster said, everyone judges these things by their own travels and experiences. What you may think is "bustling" or "dense" can mean totally different things for people from other parts of the world.
Toronto was my first "Big city" experience when it comes to living. I am originally from a city that has a population under 1m people. Before moving to Toronto we did travel extensively to London and Miami, so larger cities were not a shock to me in the least, but living in one is much different than visiting.
The first thing that stood out to me were the tall buildings and the large professional work crowds. Also public transportation was not something I took often as a kid back in the Caribbean either, so the subway system was a much different big city experience for me as well. While Toronto was a big city, I still found my old city more bustling at times and more of a 24 hour city, despite being only a fraction of the size. People tend to underrate how vibrant and go-go-go the downtown areas of Caribbean cities are.
Since then I have lived in some cities larger than Toronto (NYC, Istanbul and London) and a few smaller (Boston, Miami and Orlando). I still view Toronto as a large city, but after living in the 3 mentioned above, it is like night and day when it comes to what feels "big" when it comes to cities and what Toronto offers. It offers some elements of big city living, similar to how Boston has some boxes checked but falls short in other categories. So I would hardly call it what I view as the quintessential big city experience.
Downtown Toronto is bustling and dense by ANY standard when comparing with other N.A. cities, except parts of places like NYC or SF. Period. Not sure why you need to compare one very specific area of Toronto with the entire city of Berlin. I'm sure you know Berlin well - like a an earlier poster said, everyone judges these things by their own travels and experiences. What you may think is "bustling" or "dense" can mean totally different things for people from other parts of the world.
Just to chime in as another person who has spent a considerable amount of time in Berlin as well, I see completely both sides of this discussion.
I agree with Jesse that Berlin is not a Central Downtown centric city like Toronto. When you go downtown Toronto on a work day especially you see crowds at times that one area in Berlin probably wont match, person for person.
On the other hand I agree that Berlin has more areas that are bustling than Toronto. Also some areas in Berlin just seem to never die vibrancy wise, and that is not only due to the nightlife, but rather the culture of just doing everything later than people in Toronto. There isn't one part of Toronto I would call a 24 hour neighborhood in the truest sense, but Berlin definitively has that element.
Overall on balance I view Berlin as the more vibrant city, because true vibrancy to me never dies. Toronto when it gets ramping up though can definitely match most places as well.
Since then I have lived in some cities larger than Toronto (NYC, Istanbul and London) and a few smaller (Boston, Miami and Orlando). I still view Toronto as a large city, but after living in the 3 mentioned above, it is like night and day when it comes to what feels "big" when it comes to cities and what Toronto offers. It offers some elements of big city living, similar to how Boston has some boxes checked but falls short in other categories. So I would hardly call it what I view as the quintessential big city experience.
That is changing more and more. Toronto's boom over the last decade continues strong and you haven't lived here for awhile. Ive only lived DT for 5 years and have noticed a huge change in the concentration of people. Kinda hard to say that in atleast the Canamerican landscape that it isn't a large and bustling city.. Globally of course no it isn't NYC, London or Istanbul but in our neck of the woods id say the following gives a more big city feel than Boston, Houston or Philly lol - but thats just me
Overall on balance I view Berlin as the more vibrant city, because true vibrancy to me never dies. Toronto when it gets ramping up though can definitely match most places as well.
I dont disagree with you about 24 hr vibrancy but I think it isn't all or nothing - if anything id say its a good thing that most people are sleeping at 4 am - prolly means these people have jobs and educational requirements. A vibrant 9pm - 3am isn't a bad thing and is still 'vibrant' even if it doesn't meet your definition. Having said that Toronto is not a 24 hr city - yet but its working on it and nobody can deny the urbanized densification of the city is remarkeable and no end is in sight. God once they start moving piles of people into the new super condos going up its going to just keep going and going. Take a look at the U/C activity in the DT core with completions through 2017 and hard to deny this is going to contantly change the street vibrancy of the city more than most places who arent densifying like T.O..
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