Please register to participate in our discussions with 2 million other members - it's free and quick! Some forums can only be seen by registered members. After you create your account, you'll be able to customize options and access all our 15,000 new posts/day with fewer ads.
Like you, I an immigrant and a child of immigrants. The perception of many Canadians and Americans of the immigrant experience tends to be overly-romantic, one-sided, and two-dimensional. And that's because they view it only from the perspective of a multiple-generation Canadian or American.
Fusion, I'm not at all offended by your opinions, but I am not surprised by, or feel any sense of guilt by them, either. In fact, I'm quite used to views like yours. And that's because my parents, who chose to emigrate to Canada as a very young couple in the mid-60s, received almost identical messages from friends and family who remained in the UK (though many others also came to Canada and the US).
In fact, I remember both my grandmothers, while visiting Canada, occasionally expressing outright anger at their children for having made the choice to abandon their "great nation," AND at Canada for having taken my parents away. And, despite my parents' pleadings that they join us in Canada, both chose to remain in the UK permanently because they much preferred the European way of life. So, believe me, your sentiments work both ways.
And those sentiments are a good thing. Of course I don't want to see a huge exodus out of Canada any more than I'd like to see a huge exodus out of Scotland. But, as Acajack pointed out, your concerns are unnecessary. If a tiny country like Scotland, with a population of approximately 6 million people, can continue to flourish despite a huge diaspora across every other English-speaking country, then Canada, with more than 5 times the population and higher rates of immigration, will continue to thrive regardless of a tiny minority of us leaving. I'm not at all worried, so it would seem that I have more faith in Canada than do you.
Well, I don't disagree with you, but this could apply to EVERY immigrant to Canada, as well, could it not? And if I remember correctly, your partner is from another country, yes? So, perhaps he should have remained in HIS country, or at least return to work there, to pay taxes there and to support the economy there in order to support HIS homeland in a fundamentally important way? Or is that different?
Hmm. Okay, you think we should be able to have interesting discussions on CD without anyone playing the "judgmental" card, so bear with me here. Though off-topic, I want to use an analogy and apply it to the basic premise of your argument. The analogy is raising children.
I've noticed that a number of posters on the Canadian threads (and large numbers on CD generally), do not have children, and many are over the age of 35. I assume that for at least some, including you, that was a personal choice. I presume that raising children - the future generation of your country - was not an interest of yours.
Well, that's okay. I get it. I'm certainly not the kind of insufferable person that thinks that everyone should have kids, or that people need to have kids in order to lead happy, fulfilling lives. Absolutely not. BUT, to apply something you said earlier, "my concern is if everyone had that inclination we'd be in trouble so it isn't a decision i'd personally take lightly and I put certain things ahead of my own personal happiness and pride in country is one of them."
In fact, it's hard for me not to notice that easily 40-50% of people I know in my age range (late 30s to late 40s) have never had kids and don't plan to. BruSan may be an anomaly in HIS generation, but the childfree in Canada, the US, and many European countries by no means make up a tiny minority amongst GenXers. They are a very large minority and perhaps growing steadily.
What will happen if more and more people choose to forego having children (and judging by the millennials, it appears that IS a possibility)?
Yes, this basically sums up exactly how I feel about the economic, cultural and political implications of SO many people choosing not to have children. Most western countries are already well BELOW replacement levels; hence the need (understandably) for immigrants. That God for immigrants, because without them, quite frankly, we' be effed. What really cracks me up is when I hear people - including 2 of my ex's siblings in Canada - who have chosen not to have kids, but who actually have the audacity to complain about immigration.
You feel a "tinge of bitterness" if the goal isn't to bring wealth back in the "homeland"? I think I understand, because I feel similarly about SO many people choosing to bow out of the responsibility of raising future taxpayers (and educators, healthcare providers, scholars, innovators, leaders, policy makers, etc.) for the benefit of society as a whole.
I'm just a regular, exhausted parent with lots of responsibility and little time to do it all. I'm no different from any other parent. And I hope that my 3 intelligent, kind, respectful, conscientious kids will work to make their country and the world a better place. To that end, I HAVE done at least some of my part. I have made valuable contributions to "build a strong community." And personal sacrifice? I could write a short book on it.
Hmmmmmmm. I have a busy day today too but just a comment on the childless aspect of your post. Not all childless people were fortunate enough to be able to make a choice to have children. Just something to keep in mind.
Hmmmmmmm. I have a busy day today too but just a comment on the childless aspect of your post. Not all childless people were fortunate enough to be able to make a choice to have children. Just something to keep in mind.
I'm aware of that, netwit. That's why I made a conscious effort to refer to the large number of people who CHOOSE not to RAISE any kids. And there are lots of them.
I don't dispute any of that, but that's a global issue in one particular sector, more than a solely Canadian one. Silicon Valley drains much of the top talent in its field from all over the world.
You should. Last time I checked software or hardware developer was not a profession which enabled you to immigrate to Canada anymore with the points system, unlike 10 years ago. The same is true for Silicon Valley, people like hobbes like to cling on to what the US once was. And the same is true for the EU, they claim there is a shortage of 500.000 IT people yet IT salaries in the EU and the US are at the lowest levels since decades corrected for inflation.
You should. Last time I checked software or hardware developer was not a profession which enabled you to immigrate to Canada anymore with the points system, unlike 10 years ago. The same is true for Silicon Valley, people like hobbes like to cling on to what the US once was. And the same is true for the EU, they claim there is a shortage of 500.000 IT people yet IT salaries in the EU and the US are at the lowest levels since decades corrected for inflation.
Damn! That rules my husband out of eligibility then, too. lol.
Damn! That rules my husband out of eligibility then, too. lol.
The US still has the H1B visa which is mostly used to import poorly paid, easy to exploit IT people from Asia. Do a search for 'H1B abuse', much has been written about it.
You should. Last time I checked software or hardware developer was not a profession which enabled you to immigrate to Canada anymore with the points system, unlike 10 years ago. The same is true for Silicon Valley, people like hobbes like to cling on to what the US once was. And the same is true for the EU, they claim there is a shortage of 500.000 IT people yet IT salaries in the EU and the US are at the lowest levels since decades corrected for inflation.
Not sure about this, salaries in Silicon Valley still remain very high as this remains one of the most economically productive regions on earth. The median salaries at companies like MSFT, Google and Apple are like $130-$140K+ which include all employees. And some kids out of top colleges are cracking six figures to start. I don't have time to read all this but on page 6 it says the average income of the region is $107K. Coupled with an unemployment rate is 5.8% and highly educated and globally diverse work force. I don't think these people are doing too badly at all.
Not sure about this, salaries in Silicon Valley still remain very high as this remains one of the most economically productive regions on earth. The median salaries at companies like MSFT, Google and Apple are like $130-$140K+ which include all employees. And some kids out of top colleges are cracking six figures to start. I don't have time to read all this but on page 6 it says the average income of the region is $107K. Coupled with an unemployment rate is 5.8% and highly educated and globally diverse work force. I don't think these people are doing too badly at all.
You should. Last time I checked software or hardware developer was not a profession which enabled you to immigrate to Canada anymore with the points system, unlike 10 years ago. The same is true for Silicon Valley, people like hobbes like to cling on to what the US once was. And the same is true for the EU, they claim there is a shortage of 500.000 IT people yet IT salaries in the EU and the US are at the lowest levels since decades corrected for inflation.
Well, for some reason Canada's immigration criteria don't always correspond to some of the shortages we have. For example where I live we have a doctor shortage but it's very difficult for foreign-trained doctors to move here (even trained in France or Switzerland!). This is one thing that Canada does rather badly it is true.
Well, for some reason Canada's immigration criteria don't always correspond to some of the shortages we have. For example where I live we have a doctor shortage but it's very difficult for foreign-trained doctors to move here (even trained in France or Switzerland!). This is one thing that Canada does rather badly it is true.
It's either that or your government is smart enough to realize all the 'IT shortage' claims are made by companies who just want to import cheap slave workers from third world countries like what happens in the US with the H1B visa.
It's either that or your government is smart enough to realize all the 'IT shortage' claims are made by companies who just want to import cheap slave workers from third world countries like what happens in the US with the H1B visa.
Could be. The article quoted by hobbes was written by an IT entrepreneur, not a journalist. But I have no way of knowing if he is talking about a genuine shortage or if he just wants to bring in foreign workers he can pay less.
Please register to post and access all features of our very popular forum. It is free and quick. Over $68,000 in prizes has already been given out to active posters on our forum. Additional giveaways are planned.
Detailed information about all U.S. cities, counties, and zip codes on our site: City-data.com.
Please register to participate in our discussions with 2 million other members - it's free and quick! Some forums can only be seen by registered members. After you create your account, you'll be able to customize options and access all our 15,000 new posts/day with fewer ads.
