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Yes but from what I understand the trades accepted are extremely limited. And honestly it doesn't seem worth it to spend 5 years learning to be a carpenter or whatnot just to move to Canada. As much as I'd love to live in Vancouver or Toronto with the point system being strict as it is I'm probably better off just living in America.
I don't mean any disrespect to you personally as I'm speaking in general terms here, but I think that you hit the nail on the head with your above statements. You and other Americans like you who feel the same way are probably better off just living in America since it really is no better or worse than Canada and you already have a really good thing going for you where you are, plus America has a much more hospitable climate. I sometimes have a hard time understanding why any Americans would want to move to Canada when they already live in one of the greatest countries in the world.
I'm just speculating on the following observations, but I think also that one of the reasons why the point system is set so high is to separate the wheat from the chaff. The people who will really feel Canada is worth it to go through a lot of efforts and jumping through hoops to demonstrate they want to get into Canada are the ones who will get in. They are the wheat that Canada wants and needs because they're demonstrating through their efforts that they want to be, and will be, assets to Canada. The people who don't think Canada is worth all the effort and don't see any merit in jumping through hoops, they would not be considered assets to Canada. They are the chaff that Canada doesn't want because they would more likely be looking at Canada from the perspective of how Canada might be of benefit and advantage to them rather than how they will be of benefit Canada.
It's just a practical, realistic thing and probably based on lessons learned from observing both the mistakes and successes that other countries have made in their immigration policies. It's not arrogant or being biased towards anyone because all prospective immigrants from all countries who want to get into Canada have to jump through the same hoops as everyone else to demonstrate that they are what Canada needs and wants.
I think there are a few other ways, such as being self-employed (I think you need to demonstrate you were able to support yourself thru self-employment in your home country) or being sponsored for a job that is on the list of needed skills in a particular province. I think this is a bit different than the point system, but you need a job offer. (Last I looked its not just university degrees, but professions such as early childhood ed, that are in need.) There is particular need from employees of all stripes in Alberta, so I hear. Finally, I believe if you complete university in Canada, you can get at least a temporary work permit to establish yourself? But, you would have to pay international student tuition, which is more than in-state tuition in the U.S., and you wouldn't qualify for government financial aid.
One small difference between Canada and the U.S. is that it is more common here to get a two-year "college" degree or a one-year certificate that leads to employment in a career field.
But, I would agree completely with Zoisite. Why Canada? I say this as a dual citizen who moved to Canada lately for a job and location we liked in the northwest, and I like it fine but don't see a huge difference.
Yes, Montreal is really cool culturally (but I hear crazy politically), Toronto seems like a great multi-cultural city that is safe too, and Vancouver ... well its expensive and similar to Seattle or San Francisco in many ways, with a weaker economy, somewhat different demographics - and perhaps less good music ;-). Overall, Canada is not much different from the northern parts of the U.S., with a few unique cultural or policy patterns. Progressive and diverse cities in the U.S., like Seattle and Portland, offer more for my lifestyle than many places in Canada (and actually I meet younger Canadians who are seeking to move there). The U.S. has Minneapolis, Canada has Winnipeg. And the U.S. is full of midwestern cities, some of them becoming quite dynamic, that offer a good quality of life and affordable housing, as well as warmer climes. And if its a quieter lifestyle you seek, that can be found on either side of the border.
I agree it can seem a bit odd that both countries create so many obstacles for people to move between, say, Vancouver and Seattle or Boston and Montreal, compared to the way it used to be, but there are political questions at stake there, not the point of this thread.
I think there are a few other ways, such as being self-employed (I think you need to demonstrate you were able to support yourself thru self-employment in your home country) or being sponsored for a job that is on the list of needed skills in a particular province. I think this is a bit different than the point system, but you need a job offer. (Last I looked its not just university degrees, but professions such as early childhood ed, that are in need.) There is particular need from employees of all stripes in Alberta, so I hear. Finally, I believe if you complete university in Canada, you can get at least a temporary work permit to establish yourself? But, you would have to pay international student tuition, which is more than in-state tuition in the U.S., and you wouldn't qualify for government financial aid.
One small difference between Canada and the U.S. is that it is more common here to get a two-year "college" degree or a one-year certificate that leads to employment in a career field.
But, I would agree completely with Zoisite. Why Canada? I say this as a dual citizen who moved to Canada lately for a job and location we liked in the northwest, and I like it fine but don't see a huge difference.
Yes, Montreal is really cool culturally (but I hear crazy politically), Toronto seems like a great multi-cultural city that is safe too, and Vancouver ... well its expensive and similar to Seattle or San Francisco in many ways, with a weaker economy, somewhat different demographics - and perhaps less good music ;-). Overall, Canada is not much different from the northern parts of the U.S., with a few unique cultural or policy patterns. Progressive and diverse cities in the U.S., like Seattle and Portland, offer more for my lifestyle than many places in Canada (and actually I meet younger Canadians who are seeking to move there). The U.S. has Minneapolis, Canada has Winnipeg. And the U.S. is full of midwestern cities, some of them becoming quite dynamic, that offer a good quality of life and affordable housing, as well as warmer climes. And if its a quieter lifestyle you seek, that can be found on either side of the border.
I agree it can seem a bit odd that both countries create so many obstacles for people to move between, say, Vancouver and Seattle or Boston and Montreal, compared to the way it used to be, but there are political questions at stake there, not the point of this thread.
Not every decision one makes is based on objective criteria or a checklist though... Have you loved a place or a person but can't put a finger on it...
Up to few years ago immigrating into Canada was extremely easy, I got my residence paper from my country in only 90 days, no interviews and I did not have an advanced degree.
Canadian cities are full of small sandwich and pizza shops opened by immigrants with "business visas"....so even the amount you need to bring as an entrepreneur is not that substantial.
I know of at least 3 very recent cases of people with no degrees at all, just sponsored by a company, one of them is a meat packer and the other two are working in retail...hardly cutting edge stuff.
Many people got through the naturalization process to become citizen without even speaking English.
Waiting times vary significantly depending from the country of origin....I heard of 5 years wait for Indians for example.
Legally immigrating to the US is way more difficult, not even a comparison.
Now, the question you should ask yourself as an American is if is worth it. In my opinion no.
If you are minimum wage material or low skill, there is not much of a difference between the two countries. If instead you are a professional, the US definitely offers on average more choices from a compensation and opportunities perspective. Lots of Canadians want to go to work in the US, no the other way around, some of them would sell their first born for a US Green Card.
In addition to that, the US offers more cultural and landscape/weather variations between the different areas of the country.
Do not get me wrong, for the citizens of several nations in the world, Canada can be an excellent choice but if you come from many western Europe countries and especially the US or Australia, in my opinion is not worth the effort.
Obviously you may have different reasons for wanting to go to Canada, family/spouse or a particular city you may be interested in.
A temporary company transfer from a business operating in Canada would be more appropriate and easier if you just want to spend few years in Canada.
I don't mean any disrespect to you personally as I'm speaking in general terms here, but I think that you hit the nail on the head with your above statements. You and other Americans like you who feel the same way are probably better off just living in America since it really is no better or worse than Canada and you already have a really good thing going for you where you are, plus America has a much more hospitable climate. I sometimes have a hard time understanding why any Americans would want to move to Canada when they already live in one of the greatest countries in the world.
I'm just speculating on the following observations, but I think also that one of the reasons why the point system is set so high is to separate the wheat from the chaff. The people who will really feel Canada is worth it to go through a lot of efforts and jumping through hoops to demonstrate they want to get into Canada are the ones who will get in. They are the wheat that Canada wants and needs because they're demonstrating through their efforts that they want to be, and will be, assets to Canada. The people who don't think Canada is worth all the effort and don't see any merit in jumping through hoops, they would not be considered assets to Canada. They are the chaff that Canada doesn't want because they would more likely be looking at Canada from the perspective of how Canada might be of benefit and advantage to them rather than how they will be of benefit Canada.
It's just a practical, realistic thing and probably based on lessons learned from observing both the mistakes and successes that other countries have made in their immigration policies. It's not arrogant or being biased towards anyone because all prospective immigrants from all countries who want to get into Canada have to jump through the same hoops as everyone else to demonstrate that they are what Canada needs and wants.
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I see what you mean here as far as separating the wheat from the chaff, all nations who accept immigrants want high quality immigrants. Here in the US we do that too. However I have always thought that the US and Canada sharing so much culturally and economically should have an easier path for their citizens to move across that border. Many people on both sides of the border want to do this for multiple reasons, so I wonder what is the harm in making it easier for those people. We have free trade, and the largest undefended border in the world so why not?? I now live a long way from the border, but I once lived on the border. I could see Canada from my porch I was so close. I knew people who lived on both sides who for one reason or another wanted to live on the other side. I know there is not much difference, both countries offer a similar high standard of living, but there is still enough difference that some are intrigued by the idea of crossing the border for a new life. Im not suggesting letting anyone do this, obviously there needs to be standards to keep bad people from causing problems. However for the average person who is employable, has a clean record I again ask, What is the harm??? Why have the governments of the US and Canada not negotiated a deal on immigration along with the trade agreements. The European union has done this successfully across the pond. People who move from England to Italy are truly moving to a foreign nation, but yet it has worked. The US and Canada are hardly "foreign" to each other, that kind of transition would be much easier to make. It would be a nice benefit for North Americans if they had the freedom to move about the continent the way Europeans do in Europe. I don't think we are at a point where Mexico could be included yet, too many economic differences that would cause problems. Maybe in the future they could be included too.
However I have always thought that the US and Canada sharing so much culturally and economically should have an easier path for their citizens to move across that border. Many people on both sides of the border want to do this for multiple reasons, so I wonder what is the harm in making it easier for those people. We have free trade, and the largest undefended border in the world so why not?? I now live a long way from the border, but I once lived on the border. I could see Canada from my porch I was so close. I knew people who lived on both sides who for one reason or another wanted to live on the other side. I know there is not much difference, both countries offer a similar high standard of living, but there is still enough difference that some are intrigued by the idea of crossing the border for a new life. Im not suggesting letting anyone do this, obviously there needs to be standards to keep bad people from causing problems. However for the average person who is employable, has a clean record I again ask, What is the harm??? Why have the governments of the US and Canada not negotiated a deal on immigration along with the trade agreements. The European union has done this successfully across the pond. People who move from England to Italy are truly moving to a foreign nation, but yet it has worked. The US and Canada are hardly "foreign" to each other, that kind of transition would be much easier to make. It would be a nice benefit for North Americans if they had the freedom to move about the continent the way Europeans do in Europe. I don't think we are at a point where Mexico could be included yet, too many economic differences that would cause problems. Maybe in the future they could be included too.
You raise a very valid point and you forgot to mention other than the European Union, the Trans-Tasman Travel Arrangement which allows citizens of Australia and New Zealand to freely move, work and live between the two countries and in Latin America the Mercosur and now Unasur organizations which created an open economic space between these countries that share common historical and cultural roots. The citizens of that continent can now freely travel and choose to work and live as well in these nations.
The US and Canada do not seem capable or inclined to work out a similar arrangement between these two "children of a common mother" as a the label on a monument erected at the Peace Arch border crossing states.
If anything, crossing the border is now a more complicated and rigorous affair, I still remember when you could just wave your driving license to get through and often not even that.
Many years ago I had a brief conversation with a young Canadian federal Liberal MP which was very enthusiastic about the idea of a "common perimeter", he even supported the notion of a common currency between the US and Canada. He actually told me that there was more resistance to the idea of free circulation from the Canada side than the American one. I have no idea if this is really true or it was this particular person perception.
Many years ago I had a brief conversation with a young Canadian federal Liberal MP which was very enthusiastic about the idea of a "common perimeter", he even supported the notion of a common currency between the US and Canada. He actually told me that there wasmore resistance to the idea of free circulation from the Canada side than the American one. I have no idea if this is really true or it was this particular person perception.
Many years ago, yes, that would certainly have been true, so it wouldn't have been just his perception. It's been my observation that Canadian resistance to free circulation is much greater now than it was 10 years ago, and 10 years ago resistance was greater than it was 20 years, and 30 and 40 years ago - etc. So considering the way that Canadian resistance has been increasing over the past several decades I doubt that free circulation is something that will ever happen.
What were the reasons he gave you for why there was resistance to it back then at that time?
Not every decision one makes is based on objective criteria or a checklist though... Have you loved a place or a person but can't put a finger on it...
I think for me the appeal of Canada is the culture and the cities themselves and how they're laid out. The cities are just more smartly designed for social interactions, American cities even the liberal ones tend to feel like deserts. I like how Canada is a smaller country for one thing. I also don't think that you can truly replicate the experience of living in Vancouver, Toronto or Montreal in the States. They're just awesome cities. Seattle is not the same as Vancouver, Boston or Philly are not the same as Toronto and there's nothing in the US that's remotely close to Montreal or Quebec City.
Right now I live in Portland Oregon and while it has a few of the things that makes Vancouver great I think it has different things to offer. Not necessarily worse. Portland might be fairly close to the mountains and ocean but in Vancouver they're right there. I like how cheap beer in America is but the food in urban Canada is better than anywhere in the States I've been to aside from California.
Portland and Seattle are fine but Vancouver is just, I don't know awesome. America is better if you're a workaholic or want to make a lot of money but Canada's better if you're more laid back. Though the differences are narrowing...
I like how Canadian culture isn't quite as materialistic or superstitious as American culture, it's more practical and I also find the people are more physically fit and attractive on average. The British influence is cool too even if it's minor compared to how it used to be and I hope I don't sound racist/classist saying this but I like how there's less of a "ghetto" or "trashy" element up there. Canada does have its own equivalent of rednecks and ghettoes but it's generally not as obnoxious as the stuff you'll find in the States.
But honestly, it's so insanely difficult to move to Canada these days and Canada seems to be going backwards socially and politically while America is slowly becoming more sane and progressive, so the appeal of moving there is not nearly as strong to me as it once was. I think I will opt to live in a truly foreign country like China or the UK for a while, then I might try living somewhere in the eastern US. Or maybe find a way so I can live in Canada part-time.
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