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Old 02-16-2008, 06:36 PM
 
15 posts, read 60,791 times
Reputation: 15

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Bugsbunnie,

Not every Canadian has access to a regular family doctor. That means that if you need care you have to go to a walk-in clinic or emergency at the hospital. So, when I pay those monthly health premiums through my taxes in Ontario, I am grumbling. The only reassurance is that if I had an emergency or life-threatening illness, I would not get any bills -- it would be 100% paid by the government.
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Old 02-16-2008, 09:10 PM
 
Location: Calgary, AB
315 posts, read 1,626,351 times
Reputation: 138
Quote:
Originally Posted by Kathleenh54 View Post
When Americans scream about how high our taxes would have to be to pay for universal medical coverage, my reply is that it can't possibly be more than the $16,000 we pay out of pocket annually. And that's without a major illness in the family. Ridiculous.
When I lived in the US, I didn't pay much for healthcare at all. My employer paid the premiums and I just had a $10 co-pay for each visit.

I think universal medical coverage is horrible. That is probably my only real gripe about living in Canada. I can't stand the healthcare!
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Old 02-17-2008, 12:53 AM
Status: "Token Canuck" (set 19 hours ago)
 
Location: Victoria, BC.
33,592 posts, read 37,230,635 times
Reputation: 14044
You can't stand the health care? I find that unbelievable. Wait till you age and your body starts to fall apart. I was hospitalized in October for two weeks for pancreatitus...My cost $0. The problem was caused by gall stones, so I had gall bladder surgery...My cost $0... I am now under going a complete medical check up including ultra sound tests for a circulation problem in my legs, and an echo cardiogram, among other tests....My cost $0 ( I pay $54 per month so I guess it's not really $0.)

Can you tell my what these procedures would cost in the US
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Old 02-17-2008, 07:42 AM
 
Location: Calgary, AB
315 posts, read 1,626,351 times
Reputation: 138
Quote:
Originally Posted by sanspeur View Post
Can you tell my what these procedures would cost in the US
With the (fairly standard) insurance my employer paid for, surgery was $50 and office visits were $10.

With that in mind, a hopsital stay and surgery with 5 follow up office visits would run $100 in total.
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Old 02-17-2008, 08:35 AM
 
Location: Toronto
215 posts, read 1,661,613 times
Reputation: 142
Wonderful - if you have a great job.

In the US you can literally be too poor to deserve healthcare. In Canada, that can never happen.
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Old 02-17-2008, 10:14 AM
 
Location: Calgary, AB
315 posts, read 1,626,351 times
Reputation: 138
Quote:
Originally Posted by nickjbor View Post
Wonderful - if you have a great job.

In the US you can literally be too poor to deserve healthcare. In Canada, that can never happen.
In the US, even the most basic of low end jobs generally have healthcare benefits. Those below the poverty line have government coverage through Medicaid and the elderly are covered by Medicare. Sure there are a small number of people (16%) that slip through with no coverage but they are certainly the minority.

I prefer the US system for two reasons...
  1. Better quality of care compared to Alberta (I haven't lived in any other provinces). Great doctors that truely care about your health. Here in Alberta, the newspapers are constantly running stories about people that can't even find a family practice doctor and those that have to wait 3 or 4 months for certain non-emergency surgeries.
  2. Less cost to the consumer in the US. Employers generally pay for insurance and co-pays are very low. Here in Canada, I am forced to pay higher taxes to support healthcare for those that don't pay in nearly as much as I do. In addition to the higher taxes, I am forced to live with substandard care. More cost in Canada for less service (see item #1).
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Old 02-17-2008, 10:57 PM
 
Location: Toronto
215 posts, read 1,661,613 times
Reputation: 142
Healthcare is better in the US no doubt, but it's the insurance that's screwed up. I've heard enough horror stories from people about their car insurance, and see enough on CNN about house insurance. I myself got screwed by my car "insurance" company. I shudder to think that I'd have to put my life in the hands of these people.
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Old 02-20-2008, 05:44 PM
 
5 posts, read 32,578 times
Reputation: 20
Quote:
Originally Posted by ZX14TJ View Post
In the US, even the most basic of low end jobs generally have healthcare benefits. Those below the poverty line have government coverage through Medicaid and the elderly are covered by Medicare. Sure there are a small number of people (16%) that slip through with no coverage but they are certainly the minority.

I prefer the US system for two reasons...
  1. Better quality of care compared to Alberta (I haven't lived in any other provinces). Great doctors that truely care about your health. Here in Alberta, the newspapers are constantly running stories about people that can't even find a family practice doctor and those that have to wait 3 or 4 months for certain non-emergency surgeries.
  2. Less cost to the consumer in the US. Employers generally pay for insurance and co-pays are very low. Here in Canada, I am forced to pay higher taxes to support healthcare for those that don't pay in nearly as much as I do. In addition to the higher taxes, I am forced to live with substandard care. More cost in Canada for less service (see item #1).
Well I for one live in Alberta, and find that I have a VERY caring and compassionate team of health care providers. I have some complex medical issues, and need co operation and communication between all.

The stories in the Calgary papers, are SOME people, with CERTAIN doctors. I am sure that there are many "horror" stories in the U.S. as well, and not all doctors are tip top, caring and considerate there either. Just as the newspaper has featured a few, the U.S. television coverage has been plastered with terrible stories regarding treatment of people, both with and without health care insurance.

The insurance plans here do vary from province to province. I lived in the Yukon for many years where I never paid a cent for care, and here in Alberta, yes we do pay a fee, we also pay about $350 per a month for additional insurance, that covers dental, prescriptions, private rooms should we be hospitalized etc.

I personally think the Canadian Health Care system all be it flawed, to be far superior to the U.S. system. Yes you may be paying for it through taxes, however, even IF the U.S. had public funded health care? The tax dollars would still be less than we pay in Canada due to population. YES you may have to wait a little longer to get into see a specialist.. however.. if you are REALLY ill? You do get in pretty fast. They do not play around when people are in jeopardy or serious danger.

Sure if you have a nagging ache in your leg and want it scanned, you might get faster service in the U.S. but a possible blood clot? and I guarantee you are in just as fast here.

I also see many documentaries regarding the critical situation it has become in the U.S. for people who do not get employer coverage (or if they do it is very minimal, and conditional, so if you start the job with diabetes you are rejected for coverage), or simply can not afford coverage. And no, coverage is NOT cheap there. The last documentary I saw stated the average person for just basic care, pays over $850/ month for premiums, we just looked into it ourselves as we are about to be transfered, and my husbands company is going to pay HIS full premiums, however it is another $1500 per a month to add the rest of us, in which we have to pay out of our pocket.

Argue that it is cheaper to live down there and there is less federal taxes to pay? True, BUT no one bothers to add in the much higher property taxes, the toll roads, many states have additional state taxes, and on top of that most families are paying out $800 per a month per a child for schooling, if they do not like the publicly funded schools in their area. When a person who makes well over 100K a yr is having a hard time justifying those additional expenses when weighing the difference, I personally would MUCH prefer to be GUARANTEED to have care and not have to lose my house over a cancer diagnosis, than be angry because I am paying a little more now in tax, and "MAY" never end up sick. I guess I hope you don't ever end up jobless, in the US and happen to get cancer, diabetes, or some heart condition.

What I DO find is it is always the people who are not ill, and who DO have good jobs, and coverage that make these arguments there. The fact that Canada treats ALL people equal no matter WHAT income, or health condition, alone makes it better in my opinion.

Last edited by xantalia; 02-20-2008 at 05:48 PM.. Reason: accidentally hit post before done LOL
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Old 02-21-2008, 11:25 AM
 
Location: Calgary, AB
315 posts, read 1,626,351 times
Reputation: 138
Quote:
Originally Posted by xantalia View Post
The fact that Canada treats ALL people equal no matter WHAT income, or health condition, alone makes it better in my opinion.
Therein lies the rub. All people are treated equal. I my experience living in Alberta (I still live here), the "equal" treatment is consistently substandard.

I prefer a system that allows people with money to get superior treatment. If I wanted a classless society (communism), I would move to eastern Europe.
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Old 02-27-2008, 01:04 PM
 
Location: White Rock Valley - Dallas
197 posts, read 1,139,671 times
Reputation: 81
Quote:
Originally Posted by ZX14TJ View Post
In the US, even the most basic of low end jobs generally have healthcare benefits. ...........
That's the funniest thing I've read this month. There are not 45+ million people without healthcare here because "even the most basic of low end jobs generally have healthcare benefits"

Quote:
Originally Posted by ZX14TJ View Post
Therein lies the rub. All people are treated equal. I my experience living in Alberta (I still live here), the "equal" treatment is consistently substandard.
And, as many have already pointed out, you are incorrect in your data. And, you have not defined substandard, nor the data points as to which you arrived at that. So, it's just your opinion -- one person.

Quote:
Originally Posted by ZX14TJ View Post
I prefer a system that allows people with money to get superior treatment. If I wanted a classless society (communism), I would move to eastern Europe.
Well, I guess that's the difference between you and the rest of us and how we define "classless" eh? Plus, I hate to pop the that bubble of facts you possess, but communism fell decades ago. There are no communist countries in the eastern part of Europe. In fact, the term you use -- "Eastern Europe" -- died then too.
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