Is Quebec Independence a Legitimate Movement? (engineer, America, Scandinavian)

[fusion2]

Originally Posted by Guytar1220

He is right that most anglo are against independance and I can understand his frustration toward quebec's anglo since they never show any trust into "french" political initiatives whatsoever, but the root of exclusion is a garanty for failures. Quebec independance should be for north american french culture prosperity yes, but to also to better focus on Quebec development, which should capture anglo Quebecers attention eventually

I find it ironic that some Quebecers are highlighting that the Anglophones in Quebec don't show trust towards French initiatives much like Francophones in Quebec state that there isn't much trust with Anglo initiatives in Canada as a whole.. Regardless, i'm not sure if an arbitrary rule can be made that in a referendum on Quebec independence that certain voters would be excluded because they have an inclination to go one way or the other.. You'd have to advocate changing the goal posts there and i'm not sure that would be something that would fly..

[Guytar1220]

Originally Posted by fusion2

I find it ironic that some Quebecers are highlighting that the Anglophones in Quebec don't show trust towards French initiatives much like Francophones in Quebec state that there isn't much trust with Anglo initiatives in Canada as a whole.. Regardless, i'm not sure if an arbitrary rule can be made that in a referendum on Quebec independence that certain voters would be excluded because they have an inclination to go one way or the other.. You'd have to advocate changing the goal posts there and i'm not sure that would be something that would fly..

With all due respect, I don't think the lack of trust of franco toward anglo quebecers is comparable. Disagreement is one thing and trust is another. Quebecers have been hesitant to go with independance because they trusted that things could change and that the protagonists convinced them of their good will. While anything brought in by any member of the PQ, even if it make sense would just not work and would be demolished in the anglo press, that may looks more like partisanship, but in the street the trust of anglo towards franco, especially if the franco is not a convinced federalist is very poor, which I find quite sad BTW because that lack of trust is another barreer to have an ongoing communication, which is clearly defficient in Quebec

[fusion2]

Originally Posted by Guytar1220

With all due respect, I don't think the lack of trust of franco toward anglo quebecers is comparable. Disagreement is one thing and trust is another. Quebecers have been hesitant to go with independance because they trusted that things could change and that the protagonists convinced them of their good will. While anything brought in by any member of the PQ, even if it make sense would just not work and would be demolished in the anglo press, that may looks more like partisanship, but in the street the trust of anglo towards franco, especially if the franco is not a convinced federalist is very poor, which I find quite sad BTW because that lack of trust is another barreer to have an ongoing communication, which is clearly defficient in Quebec

To be honest Guytar (and don't take this as my personal sentiment just what I observe) I have to say that I think the appetite in English Canada for change to give Quebec more powers than it already has or giving any other province more powers or to appease demands placed by the PBeauchamps, Bonjour's and Vive's of the world has largely diminished.. It will be interesting to see how (if) another referendum happens what will play out.. You may get a more active Francophone vote for independence yet the clarity act will need to be adhered to in any referendum as well.. If the next one occurs - it might actually get ugly unfortunately..

[jambo101]

A yes vote for Quebec independence would be interesting to watch as Quebec would tear itself apart with the separatists wanting to move forward with their independence and the Quebec federalists fighting to stay in Canada.
What does a Quebec francophone federalist do if Quebec votes to separate? seems ya got 2 options= learn to love your new country or move to Canada and risk total assimilation..

[ViveLeQuebecLibre]

Originally Posted by fusion2

To be honest Guytar (and don't take this as my personal sentiment just what I observe) I have to say that I think the appetite in English Canada for change to give Quebec more powers than it already has or giving any other province more powers or to appease demands placed by the PBeauchamps, Bonjour's and Vive's of the world has largely diminished..

What demands have I made? I have no demands. I have made up my mind long ago.

[barneyg]

Originally Posted by jambo101

A yes vote for Quebec independence would be interesting to watch as Quebec would tear itself apart with the separatists wanting to move forward with their independence and the Quebec federalists fighting to stay in Canada.
What does a Quebec francophone federalist do if Quebec votes to separate? seems ya got 2 options= learn to love your new country or move to Canada and risk total assimilation..

That hypothetical applies to me so I feel qualified to reply.

There is absolutely no doubt in my mind what I will do, and what the overwhelming majority of "Quebec francophone federalists" will do, in case of a YES vote. I will stay in Quebec.

[fusion2]

Originally Posted by ViveLeQuebecLibre

What demands have I made? I have no demands. I have made up my mind long ago.

You demand your own country.

[Guytar1220]

Originally Posted by fusion2

To be honest Guytar (and don't take this as my personal sentiment just what I observe) I have to say that I think the appetite in English Canada for change to give Quebec more powers than it already has or giving any other province more powers or to appease demands placed by the PBeauchamps, Bonjour's and Vive's of the world has largely diminished.. It will be interesting to see how (if) another referendum happens what will play out.. You may get a more active Francophone vote for independence yet the clarity act will need to be adhered to in any referendum as well.. If the next one occurs - it might actually get ugly unfortunately..

I don't see the link with the trust of anglos toward francos...you may be right about the appetite, however I don't believe it will be a durable answer to the current malaise though, I could be wrong who knows, but putting fondamental problems below the carpet usually come back later on, and come back worse.

The clarity act is a placebo, it was strictly made to scare, the truth is that I don't believe it has any legal weight internationally speaking. So I would be very cautious to count much on that, it may have the exact opposite effect. Lastly if it gets ugly (which I don't hope for BTW) it may prove what many feels, ... that Quebec was not meant to benefit anymore from this confederation.

[fusion2]

Originally Posted by Guytar1220

I don't see the link with the trust of anglos toward francos...you may be right about the appetite, however I don't believe it will be a durable answer to the current malaise though, I could be wrong who knows, but putting fondamental problems below the carpet usually come back later on, and come back worse.

The clarity act is a placebo, it was strictly made to scare, the truth is that I don't believe it has any legal weight internationally speaking. So I would be very cautious to count much on that, it may have the exact opposite effect. Lastly if it gets ugly (which I don't hope for BTW) it would prove that Quebec was not meant to be part of this confederation.

Internationally speaking - you might want to be careful about that.. There isn't a lot of International support for the Catalonian situation in Spain.. They want to separate and Spain is basically giving them the big not happening and I don't see the 'International community' doing much to help their plight so the Clarity act - I think has more teeth than what you contend since the Clarity act part of the law of the land that will govern any matter of separation within Canada..

As for the last part - I agree its a rather ugly situation but it really is a matter that is kind of forced on the R.O.C really having to put up with this situation if you think about it so I don't see it being anything but a back and forth sort of thing. In truth it won't be a nice and happy split. Most breakups are not exactly happy affairs if you think about it. Lets keep it real..

[Guytar1220]

Originally Posted by fusion2

Internationally speaking - you might want to be careful about that.. There isn't a lot of International support for the Catalonian situation in Spain.. They want to separate and Spain is basically giving them the big not happening and I don't see the 'International community' doing much to help their plight so the Clarity act - I think has more teeth than what you contend since the Clarity act part of the law of the land that will govern any matter of separation within Canada..

As for the last part - I agree its a rather ugly situation but it really is a matter that is kind of forced on the R.O.C really having to put up with this situation if you think about it so I don't see it being anything but a back and forth sort of thing. In truth it won't be a nice and happy split. Most breakups are not exactly happy affairs if you think about it. Lets keep it real..

Somes will say, better be safe than sorry, other will say better be single than not well matched. ...I understand what you mean, but after all these tries and failures, and the total rejection of any constitutionnal upgrade, you can live in status quo forever. I wish it would be closer to nice and happy than hell though