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You bring some very good points...and I agree with pretty much all of it...tough I think I must precise a little more my thoughts...in fact I was refering mainly to the money spent at first to "bilingualize" infrastructures at the government levels in anglophone provinces ie mainly translation services etc... I can't recall the numbers exactly, but I remember that Trudeau had to impose his request strongly because a lot a money was involved (several millions for sure) and there was ssignificant opposition to this.
The fact that french canadians are a founding people of the country have probably justifed for bilinguism at government level like other country does. Where my original argument becomes more likely is in the time frame and intensity it was putted in place. I tend to believe that a much more progressive and prioritized approach could have been taken...but the goal was to send a strong message to french quebecers, that were juggling with the idea of independance. The message was that quebecers are all equally cannadians no matter your what is their mother tongue. To give you an idea of Trudeau's mind set, few years before he had worked on abolishing native distinct state to have them becomes 100% canadian citizens with no more recognition or privileges or special rights...which did not succeded. Let say that he wasn't known to have the most sesitive personnality. in a nutshell, getting back in the context of the time, it is pretty obvious that he was ready to do agressive actions to kill the independance ideology.
I think Belgium situation is an interesting example. They have putted in place rules where Everthing have to be balanced between the french and the flemish, it could looked at a success of national balance agreement, but the fact is that government is clogged, everything takes forever to happen because of all precautions agreeements debates, etc,etc required to get something done....canada is not at that point, but you know
What Trudeau put in place as far as federal bilingualism (and also the language provisions and rights in the 1982 Constitution) was not what Quebec was asking for, it was what HE thought was best.
No Quebec government has ever asked for coast to coast bilingual services so that people say bonjour at a post office in Red Deer, Alberta. Quebec has always been favourable to language territoriality: French (with a bit of English) in Quebec and English outside Quebec (with a bit of French).
So what Quebec governments (regardless of colour) have always asked for is legal and constitutional respect for the francophone character of Quebec, and the powers and infrastructure to nurture that.
Quebec asked for a skateboard but Trudeau gave them a bicycle. Because he thought that a bicycle was what was needed.
It should also be said that the initial federal bilingualism moves in the 60s and 70s were a bit of a smoke and mirrors game by Trudeau. Officially it was said that it was about making French equal to English in the federal government, and that this should make Quebecers happy. But the reality was that a huge chunk of the money initially went into shoring up English services in Quebec at a time when Trudeau feared that separatist governments would come down hard on the anglo community there.
In the 1980s, francophone communities from outside Quebec comissioned a huge study which showed that most of the federal bilingualism money to support minority language communities had gone to support English in Quebec, not French outside Quebec. As a result of this study and the resulting brouhaha, the situation was rectified and made more balanced.
What Trudeau put in place as far as federal bilingualism (and also the language provisions and rights in the 1982 Constitution) was not what Quebec was asking for, it was what HE thought was best.
No Quebec government has ever asked for coast to coast bilingual services so that people say bonjour at a post office in Red Deer, Alberta. Quebec has always been favourable to language territoriality: French (with a bit of English) in Quebec and English outside Quebec (with a bit of French).
So what Quebec governments (regardless of colour) have always asked for is legal and constitutional respect for the francophone character of Quebec, and the powers and infrastructure to nurture that.
Quebec asked for a skateboard but Trudeau gave them a bicycle. Because he thought that a bicycle was what was needed.
It should also be said that the initial federal bilingualism moves in the 60s and 70s were a bit of a smoke and mirrors game by Trudeau. Officially it was said that it was about making French equal to English in the federal government, and that this should make Quebecers happy. But the reality was that a huge chunk of the money initially went into shoring up English services in Quebec at a time when Trudeau feared that separatist governments would come down hard on the anglo community there.
In the 1980s, francophone communities from outside Quebec comissioned a huge study which showed that most of the federal bilingualism money to support minority language communities had gone to support English in Quebec, not French outside Quebec. As a result of this study and the resulting brouhaha, the situation was rectified and made more balanced.
You resumed very well my thoughts on Trudeau's view of bilingualism....I was not aware of that study and when you say "the situation was rectified and made more balanced" do you remember when and where that information could be found?
You resumed very well my thoughts on Trudeau's view of bilingualism....I was not aware of that study and when you say "the situation was rectified and made more balanced" do you remember when and where that information could be found?
I think we must be cautious about appearances. Few years ago you would have been exact, but these things comes in cycles and it could very well be back shortly...I would not call the bear death yet.
Should we work on improvement? Yes! But the only thing that came out of 95 is a law that tell that 50% + 1 is not enough for qc to seperate, wow! But then let's forget about that, what else happened since? zzzzzz zzzz. Nothing, no vision, Harper govt have put Canada back 150 years ago. Many quebecers are not fan of independance, but think exaclty what I just exposed previously, so lets be careful with the pronostics
Its true now the government says 50+1 is sufficient for a "no" but 50+1 is not sufficient for a "yes". What has been done since 95? Where is the devolution? Reforms? No new ideas, nothing to show for it.
Wow - you clearly don't appreciate one who is humble lol... We're all clowns in this life and sometimes things that appear as being logical is anything but! That is what humanity is all about!!
As for your contribution - still trying to understand what relavence you've brought to the table here other than observations about other nations in a historical context that have zero to do with present day Canada or Quebec.... Anyway, you don't agree with me, I don't agree with you - that's perfectly ok.....Any posts about Catolonia in the European forums yet?
Why do you keep saying to me about Catalonia? I dont understand what you mean.
The situation in Montreal isn't changing in favour of English. If it's changing strongly in any direction it's in favour of a multitude of languages other than French or English because of immigration levels. But 90% or more of those kids are going to school in French today.
I tend to believe so and if Montreal is changing in favour of multitude of languages, then we can expect that it does end up in the raise of english because all those people need to talk to each other right? and what is the #1 language in the world? Chinese!..euh no not yet, it's english thanks god , no offence to Chinese btw I'm just kidding
It is true that french immersion is in very good shape theses days, which is good and which should help bring more interaction between english and french, great!, however that does not assure that french will be spoken at work and that it will not receive a pressure that can be noticeable on the field
For sure demographic decrease of francophones does add to that, the point is that it's is still very difficult to have french being seriously considered as the official language in Qc. It is written so, but in real life it's not well seen and french have to be very cautious because de 101 law is view as a nationalist order instead of a guidance
It is true that french immersion is in very good shape theses days, which is good and which should help bring more interaction between english and french, great!, however that does not assure that french will be spoken at work and that it will not receive a pressure that can be noticeable on the field
What French immersion are you talking about? Most immigrant kids go to fully French schools, not immersion schools that are intended to teach French to little anglophones.
Immigrant kids go to schools that teach French as a first language, not a second language.
Trust me - I'm not a fan of his lordship either... I'm hoping we make the right choice next year.. Harper hasn't been all bad but he is not a unifying force to say the least and his time has most certainly reached past the expiry date imo..
Glad to ear that, I suspect that he may very well be elected again .....and maybe that would prove that the lack of distribution of power within Canada is problematic not only for Qc.
Since we are multiples nations, I am actually surprised that there are no interest from all the provinces to create an unanimous alliance to drop down this constitution that btw "Quebec did not sign, which is not very good politically" and build a true federation that would include Quebec, not a republic or a constitutional monarchy...a federation?. It may sound silly, but I really think that this would be far more stable and appropriate than what we have now...IMHO
2) In 2012, 18% of Montrealers use french in their working environnement
I don't know where you get this figure. I see 65% of Montrealers work only or virtually only in French. Another chunk works primarily in two languages and then another chunk works primarily in English.
What French immersion are you talking about? Most immigrant kids go to fully French schools, not immersion schools that are intended to teach French to little anglophones.
Immigrant kids go to schools that teach French as a first language, not a second language.
I am referring to the immigrant kids that go to schools that teach French as a first language yes...
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, no offence to Chinese btw I'm just kidding 
