Please register to participate in our discussions with 2 million other members - it's free and quick! Some forums can only be seen by registered members. After you create your account, you'll be able to customize options and access all our 15,000 new posts/day with fewer ads.
Good propaganda. I have read all the thread and you have the same theme of instilling fear in independence minded thinkers. This fearful talk about the Americans is your last strategy. That is the strategy of saying the Americans will conquer QC under independence. Lets stay in reality here, QC alone is not alot more vulnerable than Canada. This is the new strategy of saying "QC needs Canada". It is actually a pathetic minded thought process. The big difference between you and the Americans is that they have been very successful and you are the jealous younger sister. The US not more good or evil than Canada. I will also say that you are to have the same power as the Americans I fear the consequences are to be worse.
What a great joke. The US was the bully on Canada? Have you forgot, that Canada was the British superpower? For most of the history the Americans were the "underdog". Good luck with this strategy on people who do not read books! Of course you are reading better sources then Wikipedia....? I am tired of resting on this obsession with the Americans. Lets talk about QC shall we?
With respect to Canada's relationship with Britian vs the U.S - Which country now and has for the last 50 years had more real and practicable influence on Canada.... right! Having said that, let's stick it to Britain for all its worth even in 2014 lol...
Let me be clear about something - at no time and please paraphrase where I stated that the U.S would conquer an independant Quebec... I said no such thing but it is woefully naive for anyone to think the U.S - the dominant geopolitical power by far in our hemisphere and one of the most if not the most powerful geopolitical force in the world would not use sway over Quebec.. It has and continues to do so to this day with everyone else.. Oh let me guess - the Cubans are just imagining things lol... As I said earlier, if Quebec separates get back to the R.O.C regarding U.S F.P vs Canadian F.P in a few decades....
Read up on Noam Chomsky's (propaganda as you call it) or is any opposing view other than your rose coloured glasses for U.S F.P considered propaganda... If anything Chomsky is considered an independant thinker!! As for the U.S - I didn't bring that up initially someone else did.. If you don't want to engage in a discussion of what you think or how you think the U.S would engage an independant QC that is your decision but if others want to have such a discussion than I think we are free to do so - no? Or perhaps you would like to engage in censorship in the Canada forums and that you shall decide the narrative of the discussion?
Personally, I have been quite clear that it is Quebecers who should be left with making the decision as to what future they should chart and not the rest of Canada.. This is different than the Spanish situation for example. You must get it out of your mind the the R.O.C is your enemy...
With respect to Canada's relationship with Britian vs the U.S - Which country now and has for the last 50 years had more real and practicable influence on Canada.... right! Having said that, let's stick it to Britain for all its worth even in 2014 lol...
Let me be clear about something - at no time and please paraphrase where I stated that the U.S would conquer an independant Quebec... I said no such thing but it is woefully naive for anyone to think the U.S - the dominant geopolitical power by far in our hemisphere and one of the most if not the most powerful geopolitical force in the world would not use sway over Quebec.. It has and continues to do so to this day with everyone else.. Oh let me guess - the Cubans are just imagining things lol...
Read up on Noam Chomsky's (propaganda as you call it) or is any opposing view other than your rose coloured glasses for U.S F.P considered propaganda... If anything Chomsky is considered an independant thinker!! As for the U.S - I didn't bring that up initially someone else did.. If you don't want to engage in a discussion of what you think or how you think the U.S would engage an independant QC that is your decision but if others want to have such a discussion than I think we are free to do so - no? Or perhaps you would like to engage in censorship in the Canada forums and that you shall decide the narrative of the discussion?
Personally, I have been quite clear that it is Quebecers who should be left with making the decision as to what future they should chart and not the rest of Canada.. This is different than the Spanish situation.
You really are grasping at straws. Noam Chomsky? He is known around the world as a crank. At this point it becomes clear that you only write uneducated rants: including implying I should not participate because I am European. Yet you can not even speak French. It really is a basic world language at your doorstep.
You really are grasping at straws. Noam Chomsky? He is known around the world as a crank. At this point it becomes clear that you only write uneducated rants: including implying I should not participate because I am European. Yet you can not even speak French. It really is a basic world language at your doorstep.
So since he is viewed as a 'crank' in your eyes or U.S F.P is viewed as a wondrous force of respect of others in the world in your eyes and some others (vs Canada the dark force in the universe lol) including those in its back yard we should just dismiss any discussion about it as uneducated... Mmmmkkk...
Why I asked if you were European or Canadian is because oddly you have another nation where seperatist mentality is extrarodinarily strong with the majority (Catalonia) yet you have not taken on the noble task of engaging a discussion about their own future.. This is a state in Spain where support is MUCH stronger for secession than in Quebec yet Spain won't give them a platform to decide their own future..
I'm not sure why you attack me for not speaking French as if this is some sort of foundation for me to not have a viewpoint about my own country... Extraordinary.. That is like saying if one who only speaks French in Canada should not have a view about it either... Remarkable..I've actually gone on record supporting mandatory French language fluency through Canada in H.S but i'm not a young spring chicken anymore - languages aren't my thing - i'm struggling to learn Spanish with my Venezuelan partner but he is certainly more supportive of me than some people on here who think it is a license to attack that I don't speak French and invalidates my opinion.
Everyone has a right to an opinion on Canada and its affairs as we all do (rightly or wrongly) about other nations - but surely a vote or discussion on the future borders of Canada is a discussion at its heart that involves the members of that country more so than others outside its borders....
For the last time btw - it is my opinion that Quebec should decide its own future and not the R.O.C.....So no i'm not at all drawing at straws when the majority in Quebec don't want to secede.... Start showing polls where there is a solid majority of Quebecers wanted to secede and i'd be the first one to say - hey now is the time for a referendum - the people are speaking with a solid and consistent voice!!!!!
So since he is viewed as a 'crank' in your eyes or U.S F.P is viewed as a wondrous force of respect of others in the world (vs Canada the dark force in the universe lol) including those in its back yard we should just dismiss any discussion about it as uneducated... Mmmmkkk...
Why I asked if you were European or Canadian is because oddly you have another nation where seperatist mentality is extrarodinarily strong with the majority (Catalonia) yet you have not taken on the noble task of engaging a discussion about their own future.. This is a state in Spain where support is MUCH stronger for secession than in Quebec yet Spain won't give them a platform to decide their own future..
I'm not sure why you attack me for not speaking French as if this is some sort of foundation for me to not have a viewpoint about my own country... Extraordinary.. That is like saying if one who only speaks French in Canada should not have a view about it either... Remarkable..I've actually gone on record supporting mandatory French language fluency through Canada in H.S but i'm not a young spring chicken anymore - languages aren't my thing - i'm struggling to learn Spanish with my Venezuelan partner but he is certainly more supportive of me than some people on here who think it is a license to attack that I don't speak French and invalidates my opinion.
Everyone has a right to an opinion on Canada and its affairs as we all do (rightly or wrongly) about other nations - but surely a vote or discussion on the future borders of Canada is a discussion at its heart that involves the members of that country....
Only rants, and a touch of xenophobia. It is interesting, a man in Belgium will have a better view of Quebec independence than you..because you can not be interested to speak the language of Quebec discussion and publication, It is a small world for some.
Only rants, and a touch of xenophobia. It is interesting, a man in Belgium will have a better view of Quebec independence than you..because you can not be interested to speak the language of Quebec discussion and publication, It is a small world for some.
Personal attacks are allowed in C/D?.... Did you just say i'm xenophobic because I have concerns about my country? There are quite a few xenophobic views in here but because my views aren't your views or because I don't speak French they are categorized in a personal way as xenophobic and invalidated - is this what I am reading from you?
In red - totally lost credibility with me there bud.. I don't think you understand Quebec or Quebecers or Canada at all... There may be some kinship in language and even culture between a Belgian and a Quebecer but to connect them together as being more than what we connect together and built together within our own borders for over 150 years to present is just remarkably dismissive.
As for being a small world for some - well I guess that is a matter of opinion... I've been to more places around this world than probably 90 percent of the world's population but yes - like many others in this forum we believe Quebec and Canada are better off together.. Why not be passionate about it.. The greatest thing I respect about the Quebec Sovereignty Movement is the passion of those involved in wanting a better future.. I may not agree that it is necessarily a better future for all involved but I admire the passion and I would respect the decision of the people of Quebec if they did decide to seperate and actually would wish them well - with a heavy heart more than any Belgian or American ever ever would!
Americans want markets and peaceful borders lol.... Yes they do but if you think that the U.S Government or F.P is some benevelant force in the world that doesn't utilize its 'influence' through the world and in particular in its own back yard you must be living somewhere else... Look at what has gone on in Cuba for the last 50 years because they pursued their own F.P.. I'm not trying to create fear but there is a strength Canada has been able to maintain in being united that no single province has had to endure alone... If Ontario or PEI were to go it alone i'd have similar concerns..
Sure the U.S could have invaded us in a day, they as a nation have been much more subtle than that working behind the scenes.. Look up what the C.I.A has done alone in its history in terms of using its 'influence' - the U.S has multiple faces it needs to portray and one of them is this moral, democratic good guy but they have utilized many an assets to influence.. Do you really think the Avro Arrow decision was a Canadian one alone hahahahaha... Do you really think Canada is going to purchase a European aircraft for defense hahahaha nope...
The ultimate decision Quebec needs to make as an entity is will we be better charting our own course as a separate country or in a united Canada.. The decision it has made time and time again is the latter.. As I said to you earlier, if in the unlikely event Quebec does eventually secede - get back to the R.O.C 30 or 40 years later on her views with respect to geopolitics... I think Quebec would have a kindred spirit in Canada in that regard regardless of what Larry Kramer wants to portray... Canada is not a big geopolitical player, the United States is..
If Americans would decide to eat Canada for breakfast, I think they could do it very easily and quickly, Qc won't have any influence on that.
Also latin american country have nothing in common with northern industrialized countries. The US still have much more serious concerns about what's happening in the south of their borders, than what's happening on our side. We are actually pretty good neighbors.
The sad truth is that lobbyism has becomed incredibly powerful the US, and I believe that it is where Canada is heading with the current gov. An dependant Quebec will also have to be very careful about that too, but historically Qc have always been more socialist and that may help maintaining the legislation against unlimited invasive lobbyism
If Americans would decide to eat Canada for breakfast, I think they could do it very easily and quickly, Qc won't have any influence on that.
Also latin american country have nothing in common with northern industrialized countries. The US still have much more serious concerns about what's happening in the south of their borders, than what's happening on our side. We are actually pretty good neighbors.
The sad truth is that lobbyism has becomed incredibly powerful the US, and I believe that it is where Canada is heading with the current gov. An dependant Quebec will also have to be very careful about that too, but historically Qc have always been more socialist and that may help maintaining the legislation against unlimited invasive lobbyism
Of course they could eat us for breakfast and their policy towards Canada will be different than Cuba and other Latin American countries in the hemishpere - i'm just underscoring that the U.S is far from this nice benevalent great trading partner that respects the F.P decisions of those at arms length.. I don't think they do and their influence on our own F.P affairs and indeed our own domestic affairs can't be easily dismissed.. It may 'seem' to be xenophobic but the truth I think is anything but!
I'm not saying i'd rather Russia or China geographically replacing the U.S (we surely could do alot worse than America) and both countries have done much for one another and many of it good but man - even plenty of Americans don't underestimate the lengths the nation will go to exert geopolitical dominance. It is a worthy examination for all Canadians.. It is far more comfortable just to say the U.S is a great trading partner and always respects the decisions Canada makes both at home and abroad.
C'mon Edward, you can't tell me that the U.S doesn't use its influence around the world including in its own hemisphere when they did what they did to Cuba alone for 50 years.. Please, please don't tell me people are so naive to think the U.S doesn't utilize geopolitical influence and that some way some how that only extends to the 'bad' guys...
Canada has been impacted by American 'influence' for centuries now just as so many Latin American countries... Why the heck would Quebec be any different..? This isn't to say the U.S is a Bad guy... Seldom are there pure bad or good guys but a big and influential guy who uses that influence through many channels... that is for sure...
Would this alone be a reason to stay in a united Canada until the end of time, no but as Bimbam stated in his first post and I agree, there is a certain strength we have garnered and built together.. Did he use that in the context of the U.S - no but there is a strength together.. The question is - is there greater strength for Quebec within or without and this is a matter for Quebecers to decide but all options should be weighed and when someone makes the U.S out to be the moral good guy of the world.. umm Yeah..lol
I didn't ask you for a wiki education on US foreign policy, I asked you for a specific example of a Latin American country that would mirror an independent Quebec.
The "Monroe Doctrine" is just a term. US relations varied by nation and depending on the administration that was in place, both on the US side and the other. Time period also comes into play.
When you eventually master Spanish (Keep at it, its a simple language) I will pass along some recommendations for Latin American authors and their thoughts on the topic. Much better read than wikipedia.
I didn't ask you for a wiki education on US foreign policy, I asked you for a specific example of a Latin American country that would mirror an independent Quebec.
The "Monroe Doctrine" is just a term. US relations varied by nation and depending on the administration that was in place, both on the US side and the other. Time period also comes into play.
When you eventually master Spanish (Keep at it, its a simple language) I will pass along some recommendations for Latin American authors and their thoughts on the topic. Much better read than wikipedia.
You can trash Wiki if that strikes your fancy (Wiki isn't written by the xenophobic man lol) - I stand by what I said regarding the 'influence' the U.S has exerted on countries in this hemisphere and around the world. If you have a different take i'm sure there are a plethora of books that will present sides from the opposing viewpoints and everything in between in all manner of languages...
You ask me for a specific example of an independant Quebec that would mirror a Latin American country with respect to U.S F.P approach when you know this isn't possible as this hasn't happened. Having said that, if I am indeed correct than the pattern would continue in one form or another.. Its a sort of 'light' bully mentality that is manifested in power and sphere of influence. Its not in your face but it is working in the background churning away.. Some decisions probably defensible from a 'moral' standpoint, others questionable and others downright objectionable.
I invoked the 'term' as you call it - because I wanted to generate thought on the topic as it would potentially rear its head down the line vis-a-vie an independant Q.C and if it is one that would strike a chord with people in terms of U.S F.P as it relates to this hemisphere on a larger scale - great.. I mean, I have been accused by some of living in a small world in here lol.... Certainly by all appearances many U.S administrations and important members of them have invoked its spirit even into modern times including one Mr Robert Gates - but indeed this is something far larger than just a term.....
You disagree!?, that is ok.. You have books that offer an opposing view, that is ok as well but I think we truly wouldn't have a dearth of examples on this topic with respect to the U.S utilizing its influence.. Would Quebec be different than any other - I highly doubt that.. I'm not saying QC would be crippled by it in the least - but would it be a force.. Probably yes as it has been in Canada, Cuba and many other nations by many many different Administrations albeit in different manifestations with varying levels of involvement..
Anyway - fire away the book recommendations - my partner can read them to me and translate when required.. At the same time, if you have any books that would in some way support the spirit of my thought - by all means be open to either passing those along or indeed reading those yourself!
Of course they could eat us for breakfast and their policy towards Canada will be different than Cuba and other Latin American countries in the hemishpere - i'm just underscoring that the U.S is far from this nice benevalent great trading partner that respects the F.P decisions of those at arms length.. I don't think they do and their influence on our own F.P affairs and indeed our own domestic affairs can't be easily dismissed.. It may 'seem' to be xenophobic but the truth I think is anything but!
I'm not saying i'd rather Russia or China geographically replacing the U.S (we surely could do alot worse than America) and both countries have done much for one another and many of it good but man - even plenty of Americans don't underestimate the lengths the nation will go to exert geopolitical dominance. It is a worthy examination for all Canadians.. It is far more comfortable just to say the U.S is a great trading partner and always respects the decisions Canada makes both at home and abroad.
I do also believe that any relation with foreign countries deserve to be considerer with care (don't know how to say "regard critique"), but at the same time I am much more concern of who is holding the political power in a country than anything else...Canada is a good example, PM Chretien before leaving got gay marriage and refusal to follow Bush's eager fight to Irak unless the security council conclude that an intervention was required...how much do you bet that Harper would have lead us through that ugly and expensive war and that gays would still be marrying in San Francisco? All that to say, a simple gov change and the political portrait is greatly different, and that preveal locally as well
BTW Russia is already our step neighbor after Santa Claus
Please register to post and access all features of our very popular forum. It is free and quick. Over $68,000 in prizes has already been given out to active posters on our forum. Additional giveaways are planned.
Detailed information about all U.S. cities, counties, and zip codes on our site: City-data.com.
Please register to participate in our discussions with 2 million other members - it's free and quick! Some forums can only be seen by registered members. After you create your account, you'll be able to customize options and access all our 15,000 new posts/day with fewer ads.
