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View Poll Results: Is Quebec Independence a Legitimate Movement?
Yes 147 65.04%
No 79 34.96%
Voters: 226. You may not vote on this poll

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Old 01-17-2015, 05:29 AM
 
35,316 posts, read 49,320,729 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by fusion2 View Post
I don't really think its going to happen - I think on either side the extreme views are in the minority.. I think most Canadians including Quebecers are more moderate.. I respect Quebec as a distinct society and embrace the fact that we have distinct societies in Canada - it makes for a bit of a rougher ride but in the end I think civility, respect and a desire to work together will overcome. It also makes the country a whole lot more interesting to have differences. For every argument made that Quebec would be stronger as an independent nation - the same argument could be made that it would be stronger within a united Canada. Its the same for the R.O.C - for every argument they say that Canada would be stronger without Quebec - parallel arguments can be made that we are stronger together.
I also respect Quebec being part of Canadas cultural diversity but
what i dont respect is one of those cultures taking a large portion of Canada and claiming it solely for their own culture and enacting laws that marginalize all other cultures within their cultural demographic to the point of a major effort to eradicate one of its own major co cultures.
Maybe some one can remind me what Quebec brings to the Canadian mosaic as all i see is a culture that only begrudgingly stays within the Canadian collective because it enjoys the financial benefits and related infrastructure a united Canada brings,other than that Quebec has this paranoid view that the ROC is nothing more than dominators/oppressors/Quebecs overlords,an Anglo culture that apparently wants to wipe out the French culture,
What would the ROC miss if Quebec actually separated?
What would Quebec miss if it separated from Canada?

Last edited by jambo101; 01-17-2015 at 05:52 AM..
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Old 01-18-2015, 02:21 AM
 
Location: Toronto
13,656 posts, read 13,967,988 times
Reputation: 4537
Quote:
Originally Posted by jambo101 View Post


I also respect Quebec being part of Canadas cultural diversity but
what i dont respect is one of those cultures taking a large portion of Canada and claiming it solely for their own culture and enacting laws that marginalize all other cultures within their cultural demographic to the point of a major effort to eradicate one of its own major co cultures.
Maybe some one can remind me what Quebec brings to the Canadian mosaic as all i see is a culture that only begrudgingly stays within the Canadian collective because it enjoys the financial benefits and related infrastructure a united Canada brings,other than that Quebec has this paranoid view that the ROC is nothing more than dominators/oppressors/Quebecs overlords,an Anglo culture that apparently wants to wipe out the French culture,
What would the ROC miss if Quebec actually separated?
What would Quebec miss if it separated from Canada?
I really would have liked to engage in a discussion with you about this.. Express how I feel as a Canadian by addressing your points and also try to understand how you feel. I would have done it respectfully and sincerely but I'll choose not to and why is that you may or may not ask - because you're rolling your eyes at me and I can feel the condescension through my laptop screen as I read your commentary..
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Old 01-18-2015, 07:59 AM
 
Location: Shawinigan
144 posts, read 123,218 times
Reputation: 129
Quote:
Originally Posted by fusion2 View Post
We can look to politics or the Constitution to define us or just look to what we are and have been in practice. Look at it this way, does the Constitution regard any Province's status as being distinct from the other? I don't believe Ontario is granted distinct status in the Constitution from say Alberta or Newfoundland yet their are societal and cultural differences. People just like to lump the "R.O.C" together as though we are this unified anglo force that is inseperable and that isn't necessarily the case at all..With that said, I as an Ontarian living within a Province with a deep history in this country do not see myself as requiring that constitutional distinction from other provinces. Is this a weakness on my part not requiring this?
Federalist required a distinct society for Quebec not separatists and sovereignists. I don't agree with this concept since it create unbalanced privileges, which to my opinion increase the frustration of everyone.
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Old 01-18-2015, 09:01 AM
 
35,316 posts, read 49,320,729 times
Reputation: 30953
Quote:
Originally Posted by fusion2 View Post
I really would have liked to engage in a discussion with you about this.. Express how I feel as a Canadian by addressing your points and also try to understand how you feel. I would have done it respectfully and sincerely but I'll choose not to and why is that you may or may not ask - because you're rolling your eyes at me and I can feel the condescension through my laptop screen as I read your commentary..
I wasnt rolling eyes at you personally i was rolling eyes at the pervasive attitude in Quebec that looks at the ROC as nothing more than dominators/oppressors/Quebecs overlords,an Anglo culture that apparently wants to wipe out the French culture, sorry if i worded it in such a way that you got the wrong impression.

Last edited by jambo101; 01-18-2015 at 09:09 AM..
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Old 01-18-2015, 10:07 PM
 
Location: Shawinigan
144 posts, read 123,218 times
Reputation: 129
Quote:
Originally Posted by jambo101 View Post


I also respect Quebec being part of Canadas cultural diversity but
what i dont respect is one of those cultures taking a large portion of Canada and claiming it solely for their own culture and enacting laws that marginalize all other cultures within their cultural demographic to the point of a major effort to eradicate one of its own major co cultures.
Maybe some one can remind me what Quebec brings to the Canadian mosaic as all i see is a culture that only begrudgingly stays within the Canadian collective because it enjoys the financial benefits and related infrastructure a united Canada brings,other than that Quebec has this paranoid view that the ROC is nothing more than dominators/oppressors/Quebecs overlords,an Anglo culture that apparently wants to wipe out the French culture,
What would the ROC miss if Quebec actually separated?
What would Quebec miss if it separated from Canada?
That domination/oppression thing from ROC was right 50 years ago, but is more in people talks. now the independance is still for the protection of the language, but IMHO more important is the political power to priorize its policies, its investments and how it promote itself at the international level. How comes, when I do my grocery, at least 80% of the products are coming from Ontario? Ok at least its not from China..well...anyway...Can you tell how much of Qc products are sold in grocery stores in Canada? That is more what you will ear todday. Do you think that our federal politicians will say to a potential investor "put your distribution center in Qc, they may become another country eventually, but don't worry, it shouldn't happen shortly" don't think so....So we endup beeing left aside as long as there are sovereignists, and there are, a lot more than some may think, what a good future for Qc in Canada!?

The reality is that we are paying taxes for a government that is not aligned with Quebec's political vieews and challenges and we end up paying for things that we don't ask for while not putting our money where it really need to go. Its not up to the others provinces to pay for the specificity of Qc nor its smart to pay for a governement that is not geared toward our progress, I wish it would be as simple as that.

Last edited by Guytar1220; 01-18-2015 at 10:51 PM..
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Old 01-19-2015, 06:49 AM
 
Location: Shawinigan
144 posts, read 123,218 times
Reputation: 129
Quote:
Originally Posted by Guytar1220 View Post
That domination/oppression thing from ROC was right 50 years ago, but is more in people talks. now the independance is still for the protection of the language, but IMHO more important is the political power to priorize its policies, its investments and how it promote itself at the international level. How comes, when I do my grocery, at least 80% of the products are coming from Ontario? Ok at least its not from China..well...anyway...Can you tell how much of Qc products are sold in grocery stores in Canada? That is more what you will ear todday. Do you think that our federal politicians will say to a potential investor "put your distribution center in Qc, they may become another country eventually, but don't worry, it shouldn't happen shortly" don't think so....So we endup beeing left aside as long as there are sovereignists, and there are, a lot more than some may think, what a good future for Qc in Canada!?

The reality is that we are paying taxes for a government that is not aligned with Quebec's political vieews and challenges and we end up paying for things that we don't ask for while not putting our money where it really need to go. Its not up to the others provinces to pay for the specificity of Qc nor its smart to pay for a governement that is not geared toward our progress, I wish it would be as simple as that.
mistake, I meant oppression is NOT in peoples conversation anymore
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Old 01-19-2015, 07:54 AM
 
35,316 posts, read 49,320,729 times
Reputation: 30953
If the dominators/oppressors/Quebecs overlords,an Anglo culture that apparently wants to wipe out the French culture attitude is no longer an issue in Quebec why the continued need for all manner of linguistic rules and regulations,bill101 and the OQLF?
When will the francophone ever feel secure that their culture is safe from being turned totally to English?
The Once strong Anglo co culture of Quebec is now reduced to a mere 8% of quebecs population,has no leadership or representation, in Quebec many English towns,street names and institutions are being changed from English to French and public display of English signage is illegal, and most of the remaining Anglos i know cant get out of Quebec fast enough.
IMO the French culture is in total/complete control in Quebec and the Anglo culture is now basically relegated to the history books so why the continued hate for Anglos and the striving to continue to eradicate the last vestiges of the remaining Anglo demographic?
Quebec Separation from Canada is long overdue and is the only logical course of action for Quebec...

Last edited by jambo101; 01-19-2015 at 08:59 AM..
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Old 01-19-2015, 10:35 AM
 
Location: Canada
419 posts, read 397,452 times
Reputation: 631
Quote:
Originally Posted by jambo101 View Post
If the dominators/oppressors/Quebecs overlords,an Anglo culture that apparently wants to wipe out the French culture attitude is no longer an issue in Quebec why the continued need for all manner of linguistic rules and regulations,bill101 and the OQLF?
When will the francophone ever feel secure that their culture is safe from being turned totally to English?
The Once strong Anglo co culture of Quebec is now reduced to a mere 8% of quebecs population,has no leadership or representation, in Quebec many English towns,street names and institutions are being changed from English to French and public display of English signage is illegal, and most of the remaining Anglos i know cant get out of Quebec fast enough.
IMO the French culture is in total/complete control in Quebec and the Anglo culture is now basically relegated to the history books so why the continued hate for Anglos and the striving to continue to eradicate the last vestiges of the remaining Anglo demographic?
Quebec Separation from Canada is long overdue and is the only logical course of action for Quebec...
When will they feel secure? Only when there is an international border between Ottawa and Gatineau. Right now some federalist Quebecois are willing to exchange a little security for big payouts from the other provinces.

The biggest irony of all of this is that hardworking Canadians are financing the extermination of anglophone Quebecers. They pay their money to the government, who gives that money to Quebec, who then funnels that money towards the language police.
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Old 01-19-2015, 12:09 PM
 
Location: Saint-Aimé-des-Lacs, Québec
183 posts, read 200,940 times
Reputation: 226
Quote:
Originally Posted by Guytar1220 View Post
That domination/oppression thing from ROC was right 50 years ago, but is more in people talks. now the independance is still for the protection of the language, but IMHO more important is the political power to priorize its policies, its investments and how it promote itself at the international level. How comes, when I do my grocery, at least 80% of the products are coming from Ontario? Ok at least its not from China..well...anyway...Can you tell how much of Qc products are sold in grocery stores in Canada? That is more what you will ear todday. Do you think that our federal politicians will say to a potential investor "put your distribution center in Qc, they may become another country eventually, but don't worry, it shouldn't happen shortly" don't think so....So we endup beeing left aside as long as there are sovereignists, and there are, a lot more than some may think, what a good future for Qc in Canada!?

The reality is that we are paying taxes for a government that is not aligned with Quebec's political vieews and challenges and we end up paying for things that we don't ask for while not putting our money where it really need to go. Its not up to the others provinces to pay for the specificity of Qc nor its smart to pay for a governement that is not geared toward our progress, I wish it would be as simple as that.
You are correct. Though I do not see any amount of talk will fix this. We have fundamentally different views from Canada. No amount of money or government can change this fact.
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Old 01-19-2015, 01:27 PM
 
Location: Shawinigan
144 posts, read 123,218 times
Reputation: 129
Quote:
Originally Posted by ViveLeQuebecLibre View Post
You are correct. Though I do not see any amount of talk will fix this. We have fundamentally different views from Canada. No amount of money or government can change this fact.
I'm not sure if I have expressed myself correctly because I agree with your statement.

My understanding of federalism is that it "should" help centralize political and financial resources for the good of all and make a stronger government and help maintain a better equity among provinces that may not always have favorable contexts. So far the concept is noble. Moreover, Quebec even shares some of these Canadian values ​​but differ deeply on several too and this is where the political power and money of Quebec is no longer invested intelligently...and no I would NOT want Canadians to give more to Quebec and create the same frustrations than the "distinct society" concept does.

I don't know if all Canadians are aware of this but Quebec federalists say that independence is bad because Quebec benefit greatly from federal transfers. To my knowledge, per year, Quebec send approximately 50 billions and receives 9 billions, so basically Quebec send approx. 40 billions dollars to participate in the Canadian federation, who, just to give few examples, have literally let died the automotive industry in Qc, in manufacturing and more recently in forestry, and that encourage companies to have their head quarters in Ottawa or Toronto to afford to be safe from threats to independence. So how much benefits does Quebec really get from that 40 billions dollars and how much of that federal transfert mechanism help maintain frustration toward Quebec citizens?
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