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The part I don't understand is when Quebecois are always dissatisfied with Canada and the logical move is to separate, but they balk when the hour of truth comes. It is just really bizarre for me that a nation of people so distinct would calculate their future based on what they can or can not get from their neighbors.
The part I don't understand is when Quebecois are always dissatisfied with Canada and the logical move is to separate, but they balk when the hour of truth comes. It is just really bizarre for me that a nation of people so distinct would calculate their future based on what they can or can not get from their neighbors.
This is why:
Quote:
Originally Posted by PBeauchamp
Like a ripened fruit waiting to be plucked, Canada has much more to give Quebec before we decide to seperate. It behooves us to enjoy all of the fruits of Canada before broaching the subject of independence. When the tree of Canada is dry and bears no more fruit, the time for seperation will have arrived.
Hey there, I'm American and lived in Montreal for a few years. If it's alright with you guys I would like to share my experiences in Quebec, and my views on Quebec separatism.
My dad's job at the time made it possible for me to go to any Canadian university for free, so I chose McGill in Montreal. I learned French to the point of fluency. This actually isn't the norm in my experience. Most of my classmates not from Montreal didn't bother with French. It was hard and required constant effort every day, but it was definitely worth it. It is one of the best things I ever made an effort to do because it allows you to see things from other people's perspectives, instead of waiting for them to translate it to English. In Montreal this makes a big difference in the media and in what people think. This is because ideas that are discussed in French aren't necessarily taken seriously by the anglophone community, and vice versa, so because of the language divide you get a gap in society. Take the news media for example, if you only read the Montreal Gazette (the English language news source in Montreal), then you would have a very skewed view of Quebec. You would probably think that separatism is dead or dying, but when you read only French sources, the issue looks like a permanent staple of Quebec.
Anyways, there are a few things I noticed in Quebec. First things first, I think the men and women in Quebec are really easygoing. They are a bit like southerners, in that they are easygoing people and not in your face but sometimes on TV they have an unfair bad reputation. I swear it just isn't true. I have yet to come across a Quebecois person who was a jerk like they are sometimes portrayed to be. I had a few friends and acquaintances from (English) Canada who upon learning of my intention to spend 4-5 years in Montreal told me some horror stories about how bad Quebec is. So I don't know if this is what everyone hears, but it almost scared me out of going there. No, I've never come across anyone in Quebec who hates "the English" and they aren't hardcore racists. I know there are a few YouTube videos of a crazy guy verbally abusing someone for speaking English, but this just isn't something I ever experienced.
This is something I think is necessary to point out, because when talking about language laws, there are some crazy examples that people bring up. No, English speakers aren't being subjugated like some people try to say. It's simple, the vast majority of people speak French including most immigrants, so it's not like they are asking a lot. You can speak English wherever you want, you can go to college in English, go to the doctor in English, in fact you can pretty much do anything you want in English as long as you write French on your store signs you're good to go. The way I see it in Quebec is that I am going to a foreign country. If someone told me I was going to live in Italy for 5 years, I would learn Italian at least to some degree, so it's the same thing for Quebec. There is some confusion because many English speakers think that since Quebec is in Canada that English and French are equal, but if you go through Quebec and want to communicate effectively with most people you should know French. It isn't going to hurt you to know two languages. What I'm getting at is that I support Quebec language laws, and don't see what the big deal is. Iam certain that if you were a Quebecois, you would not enjoy similar treatment anywhere outside of Quebec compared to what anglophones can get in Quebec.
The independence question is something that I didn't put much stock into until I began to get a real grasp on French after 1 year or so in Quebec. I could see that the government was pushing to make Quebec at least appear like an sovereign part of Canada in many ways. For instance all of my dealings with the Quebec government were more or less exclusively in French, right down to the letters provincial government sent me, even though I was obviously an American. It took me like 2 hours to decipher each of the first letters I received from Quebec when I was applying for student permits and temporary residency. Also, people would write "Quebec" under the "country" box when filling out forms and leave the "province" box blank. Anyways, as I learned French I only watched French news, and tried to associate with Quebecois outside of college as much as possible. I also got an apartment in a very francophone part of town and did my best to meet Quebecois, especially girls. Actually most people seemed thrilled that I gave a damn about French and Quebec. As I talked to more and more people I realized that there is this rift between the Canada of the anglophones, and the Canada of the francophones.
What francophones think and say is totally different than what anglophones think, and even more poignant is that the vast majority of Canadian anglophones are way off when they try to guess what Quebecois are thinking. Believe me when I say that the things that most anglophones told me about the Quebecois were wholly or partially wrong, and I know this from being around Quebecois and trying to hear their viewpoint. One of the big things that I couldn't ignore is that it seems like anglophones tell francophones what they should or shouldn't be doing, while francophones are just used to it. Like it's a one way street, meaning that the anglo majority likes to tell francophones that they suck at running an economy, can't survive on their own, are blackmailing Canada, are bumpkins....but most of them never really try to understand what francophones actually want from Canada. Meanwhile the Quebecois have to struggle just to have their viewpoint heard in a non-judgmental manner. It is so important because the Quebecois aren't just a minority, but they are culturally a very different group of people so their views on how Canada could be can be wrongly interpreted differently by anglophones (leeching, blackmailing, you name it). There are of course bilingual small C "conservative" Quebecois (think Trudeau, I know they are called "Liberals" but for me as a non-Canadian they look like they are committed to keeping things the same) who are in politics but don't really seem to represent your average Quebecois. I'd say that the average Quebecois guy is as foreign to me as a guy from France who is a bit more familiar with American stuff, so these guys you see on TV like Justin Trudeau, I mean I don't even consider that a francophone in the cultural sense. I think there is more to it than just having a French name and being able to switch into French, there is a strong cultural and historical element to it.
Well this is getting long so let me wrap it up. I don't see the Quebecois as having any other choice than to get independence in the long run. I am confident it will happen eventually simply because the two groups are just too different and seem like they drift further apart every day. I don't know when exactly, but I expect it to happen at some point. There could be an alternative, but I think the reality is that most Canadians are just fine with how Canada is, they view it as one nation like we do in America, and a lot if not most of anglophone Canadians seem against "negotiating" with Quebec "anymore". And I put those in quotes because that is how I often hear it portrayed. That pretty much eternally pits Quebec against the rest of Canada because of the cultural realities, and in the very best case scenario Quebec can hope to find some temporary lukewarm allies to push through it's wants. Kind of like the Meech Lake incident. Anyways, since the rest of Canada doesn't want to change for Quebec, Quebec has no other option but to get independence sooner or later.
Sorry for the monster post!
Last edited by Holbrook Parks; 03-11-2015 at 12:38 PM..
Hey there, I'm American and lived in Montreal for a few years. If it's alright with you guys I would like to share my experiences in Quebec, and my views on Quebec separatism.
My dad's job at the time made it possible for me to go to any Canadian university for free, so I chose McGill in Montreal. I learned French to the point of fluency. This actually isn't the norm in my experience. Most of my classmates not from Montreal didn't bother with French. It was hard and required constant effort every day, but it was definitely worth it. It is one of the best things I ever made an effort to do because it allows you to see things from other people's perspectives, instead of waiting for them to translate it to English. In Montreal this makes a big difference in the media and in what people think. This is because ideas that are discussed in French aren't necessarily taken seriously by the anglophone community, and vice versa, so because of the language divide you get a gap in society. Take the news media for example, if you only read the Montreal Gazette (the English language news source in Montreal), then you would have a very skewed view of Quebec. You would probably think that separatism is dead or dying, but when you read only French sources, the issue looks like a permanent staple of Quebec.
Anyways, there are a few things I noticed in Quebec. First things first, I think the men and women in Quebec are really easygoing. They are a bit like southerners, in that they are easygoing people and not in your face but sometimes on TV they have an unfair bad reputation. I swear it just isn't true. I have yet to come across a Quebecois person who was a jerk like they are sometimes portrayed to be. I had a few friends and acquaintances from (English) Canada who upon learning of my intention to spend 4-5 years in Montreal told me some horror stories about how bad Quebec is. So I don't know if this is what everyone hears, but it almost scared me out of going there. No, I've never come across anyone in Quebec who hates "the English" and they aren't hardcore racists. I know there are a few YouTube videos of a crazy guy verbally abusing someone for speaking English, but this just isn't something I ever experienced.
This is something I think is necessary to point out, because when talking about language laws, there are some crazy examples that people bring up. No, English speakers aren't being subjugated like some people try to say. It's simple, the vast majority of people speak French including most immigrants, so it's not like they are asking a lot. You can speak English wherever you want, you can go to college in English, go to the doctor in English, in fact you can pretty much do anything you want in English as long as you write French on your store signs you're good to go. The way I see it in Quebec is that I am going to a foreign country. If someone told me I was going to live in Italy for 5 years, I would learn Italian at least to some degree, so it's the same thing for Quebec. There is some confusion because many English speakers think that since Quebec is in Canada that English and French are equal, but if you go through Quebec and want to communicate effectively with most people you should know French. It isn't going to hurt you to know two languages. What I'm getting at is that I support Quebec language laws, and don't see what the big deal is. Iam certain that if you were a Quebecois, you would not enjoy similar treatment anywhere outside of Quebec compared to what anglophones can get in Quebec.
The independence question is something that I didn't put much stock into until I began to get a real grasp on French after 1 year or so in Quebec. I could see that the government was pushing to make Quebec at least appear like an sovereign part of Canada in many ways. For instance all of my dealings with the Quebec government were more or less exclusively in French, right down to the letters provincial government sent me, even though I was obviously an American. It took me like 2 hours to decipher each of the first letters I received from Quebec when I was applying for student permits and temporary residency. Also, people would write "Quebec" under the "country" box when filling out forms and leave the "province" box blank. Anyways, as I learned French I only watched French news, and tried to associate with Quebecois outside of college as much as possible. I also got an apartment in a very francophone part of town and did my best to meet Quebecois, especially girls. Actually most people seemed thrilled that I gave a damn about French and Quebec. As I talked to more and more people I realized that there is this rift between the Canada of the anglophones, and the Canada of the francophones.
What francophones think and say is totally different than what anglophones think, and even more poignant is that the vast majority of Canadian anglophones are way off when they try to guess what Quebecois are thinking. Believe me when I say that the things that most anglophones told me about the Quebecois were wholly or partially wrong, and I know this from being around Quebecois and trying to hear their viewpoint. One of the big things that I couldn't ignore is that it seems like anglophones tell francophones what they should or shouldn't be doing, while francophones are just used to it. Like it's a one way street, meaning that the anglo majority likes to tell francophones that they suck at running an economy, can't survive on their own, are blackmailing Canada, are bumpkins....but most of them never really try to understand what francophones actually want from Canada. Meanwhile the Quebecois have to struggle just to have their viewpoint heard in a non-judgmental manner. It is so important because the Quebecois aren't just a minority, but they are culturally a very different group of people so their views on how Canada could be can be wrongly interpreted differently by anglophones (leeching, blackmailing, you name it). There are of course bilingual small C "conservative" Quebecois (think Trudeau, I know they are called "Liberals" but for me as a non-Canadian they look like they are committed to keeping things the same) who are in politics but don't really seem to represent your average Quebecois. I'd say that the average Quebecois guy is as foreign to me as a guy from France who is a bit more familiar with American stuff, so these guys you see on TV like Justin Trudeau, I mean I don't even consider that a francophone in the cultural sense. I think there is more to it than just having a French name and being able to switch into French, there is a strong cultural and historical element to it.
Well this is getting long so let me wrap it up. I don't see the Quebecois as having any other choice than to get independence in the long run. I am confident it will happen eventually simply because the two groups are just too different and seem like they drift further apart every day. I don't know when exactly, but I expect it to happen at some point. There could be an alternative, but I think the reality is that most Canadians are just fine with how Canada is, they view it as one nation like we do in America, and a lot if not most of anglophone Canadians seem against "negotiating" with Quebec "anymore". And I put those in quotes because that is how I often hear it portrayed. That pretty much eternally pits Quebec against the rest of Canada because of the cultural realities, and in the very best case scenario Quebec can hope to find some temporary lukewarm allies to push through it's wants. Kind of like the Meech Lake incident. Anyways, since the rest of Canada doesn't want to change for Quebec, Quebec has no other option but to get independence sooner or later.
Sorry for the monster post!
Pretty good assessment there. Welcome to the forum!
Hey there, I'm American and lived in Montreal for a few years. If it's alright with you guys I would like to share my experiences in Quebec, and my views on Quebec separatism.
My dad's job at the time made it possible for me to go to any Canadian university for free, so I chose McGill in Montreal. I learned French to the point of fluency. This actually isn't the norm in my experience. Most of my classmates not from Montreal didn't bother with French. It was hard and required constant effort every day, but it was definitely worth it. It is one of the best things I ever made an effort to do because it allows you to see things from other people's perspectives, instead of waiting for them to translate it to English. In Montreal this makes a big difference in the media and in what people think. This is because ideas that are discussed in French aren't necessarily taken seriously by the anglophone community, and vice versa, so because of the language divide you get a gap in society. Take the news media for example, if you only read the Montreal Gazette (the English language news source in Montreal), then you would have a very skewed view of Quebec. You would probably think that separatism is dead or dying, but when you read only French sources, the issue looks like a permanent staple of Quebec.
Anyways, there are a few things I noticed in Quebec. First things first, I think the men and women in Quebec are really easygoing. They are a bit like southerners, in that they are easygoing people and not in your face but sometimes on TV they have an unfair bad reputation. I swear it just isn't true. I have yet to come across a Quebecois person who was a jerk like they are sometimes portrayed to be. I had a few friends and acquaintances from (English) Canada who upon learning of my intention to spend 4-5 years in Montreal told me some horror stories about how bad Quebec is. So I don't know if this is what everyone hears, but it almost scared me out of going there. No, I've never come across anyone in Quebec who hates "the English" and they aren't hardcore racists. I know there are a few YouTube videos of a crazy guy verbally abusing someone for speaking English, but this just isn't something I ever experienced.
This is something I think is necessary to point out, because when talking about language laws, there are some crazy examples that people bring up. No, English speakers aren't being subjugated like some people try to say. It's simple, the vast majority of people speak French including most immigrants, so it's not like they are asking a lot. You can speak English wherever you want, you can go to college in English, go to the doctor in English, in fact you can pretty much do anything you want in English as long as you write French on your store signs you're good to go. The way I see it in Quebec is that I am going to a foreign country. If someone told me I was going to live in Italy for 5 years, I would learn Italian at least to some degree, so it's the same thing for Quebec. There is some confusion because many English speakers think that since Quebec is in Canada that English and French are equal, but if you go through Quebec and want to communicate effectively with most people you should know French. It isn't going to hurt you to know two languages. What I'm getting at is that I support Quebec language laws, and don't see what the big deal is. Iam certain that if you were a Quebecois, you would not enjoy similar treatment anywhere outside of Quebec compared to what anglophones can get in Quebec.
The independence question is something that I didn't put much stock into until I began to get a real grasp on French after 1 year or so in Quebec. I could see that the government was pushing to make Quebec at least appear like an sovereign part of Canada in many ways. For instance all of my dealings with the Quebec government were more or less exclusively in French, right down to the letters provincial government sent me, even though I was obviously an American. It took me like 2 hours to decipher each of the first letters I received from Quebec when I was applying for student permits and temporary residency. Also, people would write "Quebec" under the "country" box when filling out forms and leave the "province" box blank. Anyways, as I learned French I only watched French news, and tried to associate with Quebecois outside of college as much as possible. I also got an apartment in a very francophone part of town and did my best to meet Quebecois, especially girls. Actually most people seemed thrilled that I gave a damn about French and Quebec. As I talked to more and more people I realized that there is this rift between the Canada of the anglophones, and the Canada of the francophones.
What francophones think and say is totally different than what anglophones think, and even more poignant is that the vast majority of Canadian anglophones are way off when they try to guess what Quebecois are thinking. Believe me when I say that the things that most anglophones told me about the Quebecois were wholly or partially wrong, and I know this from being around Quebecois and trying to hear their viewpoint. One of the big things that I couldn't ignore is that it seems like anglophones tell francophones what they should or shouldn't be doing, while francophones are just used to it. Like it's a one way street, meaning that the anglo majority likes to tell francophones that they suck at running an economy, can't survive on their own, are blackmailing Canada, are bumpkins....but most of them never really try to understand what francophones actually want from Canada. Meanwhile the Quebecois have to struggle just to have their viewpoint heard in a non-judgmental manner. It is so important because the Quebecois aren't just a minority, but they are culturally a very different group of people so their views on how Canada could be can be wrongly interpreted differently by anglophones (leeching, blackmailing, you name it). There are of course bilingual small C "conservative" Quebecois (think Trudeau, I know they are called "Liberals" but for me as a non-Canadian they look like they are committed to keeping things the same) who are in politics but don't really seem to represent your average Quebecois. I'd say that the average Quebecois guy is as foreign to me as a guy from France who is a bit more familiar with American stuff, so these guys you see on TV like Justin Trudeau, I mean I don't even consider that a francophone in the cultural sense. I think there is more to it than just having a French name and being able to switch into French, there is a strong cultural and historical element to it.
Well this is getting long so let me wrap it up. I don't see the Quebecois as having any other choice than to get independence in the long run. I am confident it will happen eventually simply because the two groups are just too different and seem like they drift further apart every day. I don't know when exactly, but I expect it to happen at some point. There could be an alternative, but I think the reality is that most Canadians are just fine with how Canada is, they view it as one nation like we do in America, and a lot if not most of anglophone Canadians seem against "negotiating" with Quebec "anymore". And I put those in quotes because that is how I often hear it portrayed. That pretty much eternally pits Quebec against the rest of Canada because of the cultural realities, and in the very best case scenario Quebec can hope to find some temporary lukewarm allies to push through it's wants. Kind of like the Meech Lake incident. Anyways, since the rest of Canada doesn't want to change for Quebec, Quebec has no other option but to get independence sooner or later.
Sorry for the monster post!
Do you think the people in Quebec would care whether ROC learns French or adopts their culture? I think ROC should just let Quebec be, instead of passing judgments on what Quebecois should or should not do. ROC is probably not going to change just for Quebec (no practical need for folks in BC and Alberta), but Quebec also doesn't have to change and adapt for rest of Canada. Live and let live.
Hey there, I'm American and lived in Montreal for a few years. If it's alright with you guys I would like to share my experiences in Quebec, and my views on Quebec separatism.
My dad's job at the time made it possible for me to go to any Canadian university for free, so I chose McGill in Montreal. I learned French to the point of fluency. This actually isn't the norm in my experience. Most of my classmates not from Montreal didn't bother with French. It was hard and required constant effort every day, but it was definitely worth it. It is one of the best things I ever made an effort to do because it allows you to see things from other people's perspectives, instead of waiting for them to translate it to English. In Montreal this makes a big difference in the media and in what people think. This is because ideas that are discussed in French aren't necessarily taken seriously by the anglophone community, and vice versa, so because of the language divide you get a gap in society. Take the news media for example, if you only read the Montreal Gazette (the English language news source in Montreal), then you would have a very skewed view of Quebec. You would probably think that separatism is dead or dying, but when you read only French sources, the issue looks like a permanent staple of Quebec.
Anyways, there are a few things I noticed in Quebec. First things first, I think the men and women in Quebec are really easygoing. They are a bit like southerners, in that they are easygoing people and not in your face but sometimes on TV they have an unfair bad reputation. I swear it just isn't true. I have yet to come across a Quebecois person who was a jerk like they are sometimes portrayed to be. I had a few friends and acquaintances from (English) Canada who upon learning of my intention to spend 4-5 years in Montreal told me some horror stories about how bad Quebec is. So I don't know if this is what everyone hears, but it almost scared me out of going there. No, I've never come across anyone in Quebec who hates "the English" and they aren't hardcore racists. I know there are a few YouTube videos of a crazy guy verbally abusing someone for speaking English, but this just isn't something I ever experienced.
This is something I think is necessary to point out, because when talking about language laws, there are some crazy examples that people bring up. No, English speakers aren't being subjugated like some people try to say. It's simple, the vast majority of people speak French including most immigrants, so it's not like they are asking a lot. You can speak English wherever you want, you can go to college in English, go to the doctor in English, in fact you can pretty much do anything you want in English as long as you write French on your store signs you're good to go. The way I see it in Quebec is that I am going to a foreign country. If someone told me I was going to live in Italy for 5 years, I would learn Italian at least to some degree, so it's the same thing for Quebec. There is some confusion because many English speakers think that since Quebec is in Canada that English and French are equal, but if you go through Quebec and want to communicate effectively with most people you should know French. It isn't going to hurt you to know two languages. What I'm getting at is that I support Quebec language laws, and don't see what the big deal is. Iam certain that if you were a Quebecois, you would not enjoy similar treatment anywhere outside of Quebec compared to what anglophones can get in Quebec.
The independence question is something that I didn't put much stock into until I began to get a real grasp on French after 1 year or so in Quebec. I could see that the government was pushing to make Quebec at least appear like an sovereign part of Canada in many ways. For instance all of my dealings with the Quebec government were more or less exclusively in French, right down to the letters provincial government sent me, even though I was obviously an American. It took me like 2 hours to decipher each of the first letters I received from Quebec when I was applying for student permits and temporary residency. Also, people would write "Quebec" under the "country" box when filling out forms and leave the "province" box blank. Anyways, as I learned French I only watched French news, and tried to associate with Quebecois outside of college as much as possible. I also got an apartment in a very francophone part of town and did my best to meet Quebecois, especially girls. Actually most people seemed thrilled that I gave a damn about French and Quebec. As I talked to more and more people I realized that there is this rift between the Canada of the anglophones, and the Canada of the francophones.
What francophones think and say is totally different than what anglophones think, and even more poignant is that the vast majority of Canadian anglophones are way off when they try to guess what Quebecois are thinking. Believe me when I say that the things that most anglophones told me about the Quebecois were wholly or partially wrong, and I know this from being around Quebecois and trying to hear their viewpoint. One of the big things that I couldn't ignore is that it seems like anglophones tell francophones what they should or shouldn't be doing, while francophones are just used to it. Like it's a one way street, meaning that the anglo majority likes to tell francophones that they suck at running an economy, can't survive on their own, are blackmailing Canada, are bumpkins....but most of them never really try to understand what francophones actually want from Canada. Meanwhile the Quebecois have to struggle just to have their viewpoint heard in a non-judgmental manner. It is so important because the Quebecois aren't just a minority, but they are culturally a very different group of people so their views on how Canada could be can be wrongly interpreted differently by anglophones (leeching, blackmailing, you name it). There are of course bilingual small C "conservative" Quebecois (think Trudeau, I know they are called "Liberals" but for me as a non-Canadian they look like they are committed to keeping things the same) who are in politics but don't really seem to represent your average Quebecois. I'd say that the average Quebecois guy is as foreign to me as a guy from France who is a bit more familiar with American stuff, so these guys you see on TV like Justin Trudeau, I mean I don't even consider that a francophone in the cultural sense. I think there is more to it than just having a French name and being able to switch into French, there is a strong cultural and historical element to it.
Well this is getting long so let me wrap it up. I don't see the Quebecois as having any other choice than to get independence in the long run. I am confident it will happen eventually simply because the two groups are just too different and seem like they drift further apart every day. I don't know when exactly, but I expect it to happen at some point. There could be an alternative, but I think the reality is that most Canadians are just fine with how Canada is, they view it as one nation like we do in America, and a lot if not most of anglophone Canadians seem against "negotiating" with Quebec "anymore". And I put those in quotes because that is how I often hear it portrayed. That pretty much eternally pits Quebec against the rest of Canada because of the cultural realities, and in the very best case scenario Quebec can hope to find some temporary lukewarm allies to push through it's wants. Kind of like the Meech Lake incident. Anyways, since the rest of Canada doesn't want to change for Quebec, Quebec has no other option but to get independence sooner or later.
Sorry for the monster post!
Good overview, I agree with everything you said. It is quite similar to my own experience in Quebec. It's an awesome place. If you are in Clarksville you must be just a couple minutes away from me. I'm another Quebec-lover in Howard who did a bit of schooling up there.
I agree the French thing can be out of hand. I think Quebec is very justified in it's language laws, even though I do have some problems with them. What else is Quebec supposed to do? If I were in their position I would do the same thing, because there is no other reasonable alternative. The way some anglophones talk, you would think that they are victims of Quebecian apartheid. First world problems.
I agree the French thing can be out of hand. I think Quebec is very justified in it's language laws, even though I do have some problems with them. What else is Quebec supposed to do? If I were in their position I would do the same thing, because there is no other reasonable alternative. The way some anglophones talk, you would think that they are victims of Quebecian apartheid. First world problems.
So without all these draconian language laws and enforcement by the language police you believe the francophone culture in Quebec would just disappear and all the francophones would turn into Anglophones?
IMO the francophone culture isnt that feeble and could thrive just fine without the need for all the bureaucracy and language bs.
Where do you suppose Quebec would be today if bill101 and all its related bs had never came into being,IMO Montreal would be thriving as Canadas number one city and be the jewel of North America,Quebec would be The place to be.Alas cultural paranoia along with a victim mentality has predominated and marginalization has taken the place of greatness.
So without all these draconian language laws and enforcement by the language police you believe the francophone culture in Quebec would just disappear and all the francophones would turn into Anglophones?
IMO the francophone culture isnt that feeble and could thrive just fine without the need for all the bureaucracy and language bs.
Where do you suppose Quebec would be today if bill101 and all its related bs had never came into being,IMO Montreal would be thriving as Canadas number one city and be the jewel of North America,Quebec would be The place to be.Alas cultural paranoia along with a victim mentality has predominated and marginalization has taken the place of greatness.
Partly true. One only has to take a walk along Bay Street in Toronto to realize what Montreal has lost. Two of the five largest financial institutions/employers used to be headquartered in Montreal - Royal Bank of Canada and Montreal's name-sake Bank of Montreal.
RBC is now located with its massive HQ in downtown Toronto. Bank of Montreal, ironically, is now as ever a Toronto-based bank with its imposing HQ in One Canadian Place (both are still legally registered in Montreal, but its board, CEO, and bulk of employees and operations have all but moved to Toronto).
Like Jambo said, Montreal would have been the cultural AND economic megacity of Canada if things were different.
So without all these draconian language laws and enforcement by the language police you believe the francophone culture in Quebec would just disappear and all the francophones would turn into Anglophones?
IMO the francophone culture isnt that feeble and could thrive just fine without the need for all the bureaucracy and language bs.
Where do you suppose Quebec would be today if bill101 and all its related bs had never came into being,IMO Montreal would be thriving as Canadas number one city and be the jewel of North America,Quebec would be The place to be.Alas cultural paranoia along with a victim mentality has predominated and marginalization has taken the place of greatness.
Quebec would return to it's situation in 1960 where even a francophone with a master's degree was making less money than an anglophone with no education. The Quebec where the francophones who comprised 80% of the population made less money than anglophones and all major cultural groups except for Italian immigrants. No, I think the Quebec of today where 80% of the population is no longer is reduced to a colonial underclass is a better place.
Pretty good assessment there. Welcome to the forum!
Thank you Acajack! Glad I am welcome contribute.
Quote:
Originally Posted by hobbesdj
Good overview, I agree with everything you said. It is quite similar to my own experience in Quebec. It's an awesome place. If you are in Clarksville you must be just a couple minutes away from me. I'm another Quebec-lover in Howard who did a bit of schooling up there.
I agree the French thing can be out of hand. I think Quebec is very justified in it's language laws, even though I do have some problems with them. What else is Quebec supposed to do? If I were in their position I would do the same thing, because there is no other reasonable alternative. The way some anglophones talk, you would think that they are victims of Quebecian apartheid. First world problems.
There are a few others around too. The family who runs Clarksville Liquors is Cambodian, but they are native French speakers who lived in Quebec for most of their lives. The son a graduate of Concordia. We have some good talks. I noticed he had a Quebec accent when he was speaking French to the employees and so I struck up a conversation.
Quote:
Originally Posted by jambo101
So without all these draconian language laws and enforcement by the language police you believe the francophone culture in Quebec would just disappear and all the francophones would turn into Anglophones?
IMO the francophone culture isnt that feeble and could thrive just fine without the need for all the bureaucracy and language bs.
Where do you suppose Quebec would be today if bill101 and all its related bs had never came into being,IMO Montreal would be thriving as Canadas number one city and be the jewel of North America,Quebec would be The place to be.Alas cultural paranoia along with a victim mentality has predominated and marginalization has taken the place of greatness.
It is clear to me that without the language laws the French language and Quebec as anything other than a memory would be eroded to a few remote areas around Saguenay-Lac-Saint-Jean. I don't think that is fair to the people of Quebec. Without the language laws immediate independence is the only rational course of action. Doesn't English Canada have laws against the amount of American content that can be aired?
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