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Up till now Quebec seems to have gotten everything its asked for from the feds so theres not much motivation to separate.
The future is rife with opportunity. Despite all of our successes, there remains the insatiable "seperatist" element. They are prepared to throw away all we have earned, and all we will take in the future, to satisfy their silly nationalistic tendencies. Fortunately for Quebec they remain in the minority, and Canada's treasures remains free for the taking. The situation with the Anglo-Quebecer community is an unfortunate but necessary side-effect. Nonetheless I have total confidence that they'll adjust well in their new homes. They can live peacefully knowing that their misfortune has benefited the greater good.
Nonetheless I have total confidence that they'll adjust well in their new homes. They can live peacefully knowing that their misfortune has benefited the greater good.
Somehow, the Canadian government thinks driving out 10% of Quebec's population (Canadian citizens) is totally legit and looks the other way. Do we deserve this? It isn't like we get any support from the rest of Canada either. WTF happened? Wake up people. Your country is falling apart in front of you.
That is what we have been saying since 1980. But outside of Quebec most people look content to pretend it doesn't exist and continue advancing their careers. I see no way for Quebec to work as part of Canada anymore so it's mostly because of unwillingness to change/perceived lack of care for their country in the ROC.
Might as well join the Quebec independence party...
Michael Ignatieff claimed that Quebec will eventually secede regardless of what Canada does. Is he right or wrong? In all honesty I think he's right. He also made comments about the relationship of Quebec and the rest of Canada being fundamentally different than it used to be.
"Mr. Ignatieff told the BBC that the sense of national unity of his youth has given way to a sense that “we’re almost two separate countries.” The emotional bonds that once existed between French and English Canada are all but gone. “We don’t have anything to say to each other any more,” he said. “There’s a kind of contract of mutual indifference, which is very striking for someone of my generation.”
He is only speaking the truth. Quebec independence is inevitable. The only question is when?
Do wake us all up when there's a new referendum and all those Quebec Allophone voters actually join the Francophones to vote for independence. In general, they are more comfortable with Anglo-Canada, and so they want Quebec to stay in the larger federation. Also, your sources are dated, from 2012, with pearls of insight like this: "Former Liberal leader Michael Ignatieff says Quebec 'eventually' will become an independent country and that a victory for Scottish separatists in an expected 2014 referendum will launch a new effort by Quebec nationalists to fulfil their sovereignist dream." We all know what happened there. Every independence-minded person (and British-hater) in Paris and Barcelona was gloating about the breakup of the UK. In Quebec, anti-independence sentiment among Anglophones and Allophones remains pretty strong, so it probably won't happen in this lifetime.
Do wake us all up when there's a new referendum and all those Quebec Allophone voters actually join the Francophones to vote for independence. In general, they are more comfortable with Anglo-Canada, and so they want Quebec to stay in the larger federation. Also, your sources are dated, from 2012, with pearls of insight like this: "Former Liberal leader Michael Ignatieff says Quebec 'eventually' will become an independent country and that a victory for Scottish separatists in an expected 2014 referendum will launch a new effort by Quebec nationalists to fulfil their sovereignist dream." We all know what happened there. Every independence-minded person (and British-hater) in Paris and Barcelona was gloating about the breakup of the UK. In Quebec, anti-independence sentiment among Anglophones and Allophones remains pretty strong, so it probably won't happen in this lifetime.
Seeing as anglophones and allophones only make up about 15% of the population, how could they stymie th democratic will of the rest of the population?
If every single francophone decided to vote for independence, it would win by a roughly 85-15 margin.
Seeing as anglophones and allophones only make up about 15% of the population, how could they stymie th democratic will of the rest of the population?
If every single francophone decided to vote for independence, it would win by a roughly 85-15 margin.
I think you're underestimating the allophone population there, they alone are about 15%, nevermind the anglophones besides. I think the idea was that they tip the balance on an issue Francophones are divided on, and unless things radically change that they will continue to be divided on it. Something really serious would have to happen for such overwhelming Francophone unity to manifest on this question. That allophones are so disproportionately federalist I think speaks to the essentially ethnic nature of this particular nationalism - it's not one minorities feel is meant to embrace them and they fear they will be further excluded should it succeed. I think for Quebec nationalism to succeed it needs to transform radically from it's current form that was born of a different time. Unless it becomes far more pluralistic and inclusive I don't think it will be able to swing a win, and even if it does it won't be a recipe for social harmony. This is an essential challenge for Quebec nationalism that I think some in the PQ have tried to address unsuccessfully. I'm far more optimistic that Quebec Solidaire might achieve such a thing, but they haven't quite done so yet.
I think you're underestimating the allophone population there, they alone are about 15%, nevermind the anglophones besides. .
Allophones represent 8% of Quebecs population and Anglphones represent another 8% neither demographic has any power or political representation and only influence Quebec in a very minor way when it comes to voting.
As AJ points out "If every single francophone decided to vote for independence, it would win by a roughly 85-15 margin"
Allophones represent 8% of Quebecs population and Anglphones represent another 8% neither demographic has any power or political representation and only influence Quebec in a very minor way when it comes to voting.
As AJ points out "If every single francophone decided to vote for independence, it would win by a roughly 85-15 margin"
Regardless of whether francophones are 79, 81, 83 or 85% of the population they still outnumber the non-francophones by a 4 to 1 margin.
Waiting for the demographic changes in Quebec to make separation impossible is something we hear all the time (not suggesting BIMBAM is doing so though) but it's a totally dumb strategy. (In addition to being a bit too eerily similar to Chinese policies in Tibet, but anyway...)
Also, BIMBAM is right that francophones are fairly divided on the issue, but keep in mind the Oui side got 61% from francophones in 1995, which was almost 12 points more than the francophone Oui vote in 1980.
This does not mean that another 12 percent jump is likely, but one never knows.
Also, the allophone population is changing and is more organically francophone and also integrated with the francophone majority than it used to be.
Generally, my observation is that even francophonie immigrants to Quebec tend to be more federalist than old stock French Canadians are, but they are far less unanimous and categorical about the issue than the previous waves of immigrants that all went to the anglophone community.
It's hard to say at this point how their kids and grandkids will view the issue after being born here and living their entire lives in Quebec in French.
@Acajac. The problem with your post is "if every single Francophone voted for independence." We all know that is a pipe dream. I was referring to the fact that Allophones and Anglophones are pretty much opposed, as a bloc, to Quebec independence, and along with the considerable number of Francophones who are also wary of independence, they are formidable. Independence is more than just about pride of place -- we saw that in Scotland -- and voters consider security and what's best for the province. It's a total picture, and that's why nationalistic "true believers" in Quebec always have a big problem (not to mention that some of the more rabid separatists in Quebec can be downright scary in their rhetoric). It's important to underline that the real "neutrals" in Quebec, the Allophones of Montreal, often feel an affinity with English-speaking Canada. They happen to admire it and will often tell you that it is Ontario and British Columbus that makes Canada the prosperous success story it is nationwide. They don't want Quebec to separate from the larger federation, and I don't think it will soon.
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