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The ThinkProgress pice is unadulterated garbage....some twisted and fuzzy logic...frankly you can stop reading after the first few line:
"The largest study of gun violence in the United States, released Thursday afternoon, confirms a point that should be obvious: widespread American gun ownership is fueling America’s gun violence epidemic."
Gun crimes at an all time low, gun ownership at an all time high....facts, hard numbers....sure we need to do more to reduce the violence but the "epidemic" is winding down strongly.....the right direction...unfortunately is always easier for a politician to concoct laws rather than produce a coherent (and well funded) strategy to attack a problem.
At least they had a tiny drop of honesty when they say:
"Of course, the authors don’t find that rates of gun ownership explain all of America’s gun violence epidemic: "
With the word "epidemic" still present for effects.....
Probably to your surprise, I'm for some tightening of the gun laws in some regards.....mandatory training and testing before issuing Concealed Permits in all states just like a driving license (but I do want a reciprocated CCW as well for all states like a normal Driving License) and compulsory safe storage at home.
Guns are part of the American history and folklore for sure, I debate the use of the term "gun culture"....people see guns here as recreational tools (hunting, target shooting) and for defense. For the vast majority of gun owners there is no obsession about guns nor their lives revolve around guns. The fringe elements are a minuscule reality (but is great for media exposure).
At the range I meet with people from all walk of life....blue collars, lawyers, engineers, accountants, a judge, businessmen, doctors, men, women, young folks, old folks....we share a laugh and we have fun together.
One of my hobbies is aviation but I would not refer to it as the "aircraft culture".
"Guns are part of the American history and folklore for sure" + "people see guns here as recreational tools (hunting, target shooting) and for defense" = gun culture. It's not something that the US shares with the rest of the world and the Second Amendment kind of defines the US in the eyes of many Americans and those outside the US.
We may not have a term like "aircraft culture" but we do have "car culture" in common nomenclature.
I don't know when you learned English but as someone whose first language is also not English, perhaps you are reading a different meaning into "gun culture" than Natnasci
"Guns are part of the American history and folklore for sure" + "people see guns here as recreational tools (hunting, target shooting) and for defense" = gun culture. It's not something that the US shares with the rest of the world and the Second Amendment kind of defines the US in the eyes of many Americans and those outside the US.
We may not have a term like "aircraft culture" but we do have "car culture" in common nomenclature.
I don't know when you learned English but as someone whose first language is also not English, perhaps you are reading a different meaning into "gun culture" than Natnasci
I may accept your interpretation of "gun culture" but not the one often used as a code word for gun obsessed or that your life revolve around guns or that your main recreational activities are gun related.
By the way other countries have strong ties with guns including my native Italy which has one of the largest gun industry in the world....
I may accept your interpretation of "gun culture" but not the one often used as a code word for gun obsessed or that your life revolve around guns or that your main recreational activities are gun related.
By the way other countries have strong ties with guns including my native Italy which has one of the largest gun industry in the world....
Well, after I posted it suddenly occurred to me that perhaps I had been misunderstanding the term 'gun culture,' so I googled it to be sure . And I think the 'code word' part you are referring to is an addendum to 'gun culture' but not automatically a part of it, so in my mind those are two separate arguments.
Regarding world gun culture, I came across an interesting website with graphs last night, but I had to sleep and can no longer find it today. It does seem that the United States is far ahead of everyone else in terms of gun culture.
I fully understand the history of both countries and the difference in the gun laws. I know that there are a lot more guns in the US. That is not what I am disputing. I do NOT believe that the number of guns available is the cause of more gun violence in the US. Criminals do not abide by any laws. There is no problem acquiring illegal guns in either Canada or the US. I live in an area of Southern California with a metro population of 450,000 and gun violence and violence in any form is very rare here. I can't remember when there was a shooting here. There are many areas like ours. The main difference in violent crime is that Canada does not have the ghetto areas that many US cities do. That is where the vast majority of crime occurs and it is because of demographics. The vast majority of US citizens are quite safe. Chicago has hundreds of murders every year but most areas of Chicago are pretty safe.
You live in Vancouver and must be aware of the rash of shootings in the past month in Surrey. There is certainly no shortage of guns there. Canadian gun laws has not deterred the criminals and gangs from getting whatever weapons they want.
FYI, I do not own any guns and have no intention of doing so however it doesn't bother me that others can obtain them legally. FWIW, my aunt was the secretary of the NRA and president of the Washington State division of the NRA.
No one is saying criminals won't get guns. It's about how easy it is for people to get guns, that affects gun crime overall.
If the US hadn't gone the way it has in regards to it's 2nd amendment and it's looser gun control laws than Canada, do you think the murder rate in the US would be the same?
And it's amazing how much safer Canadian cities are compared to American cities. I mean compare the murder rates of the top 10 biggest Canadian metros to the top 10 biggest American metros.
Canadian metro murder rate 2012
Toronto 1.36
Montreal 1.19
Vancouver 1.50
Calgary 1.45
Edmonton 2.68
Ottawa 0.73
Winnipeg 4.09
Quebec City 0.78
Hamilton 0.94
Kitchener 0.75
American metro murder rate 2012
New York 3.78
Los Angeles 4.98
Chicago 7.10
Dallas 4.15
Houston 5.67
Philadelphia 8.60
Washington DC 3.60
Miami 6.33
Atlanta 6.13
Boston 2.05
You see what I mean. Why is that?
Here's what they say in the link.....
"Similar to Canadian CMAs, homicide rates vary across large metropolitan statistical areas (MSAs) in the United States. Among MSAs with a population greater than one million, homicide rates ranged from a low of 1.79 per 100,000 population in Raleigh, North Carolina to a high of 20.41 per 100,000 population in New Orleans, Louisiana.
It's a very big country. There are places in Canada that are safer than other places. Just like any city in the world, there are "bad" parts of any town.
I may accept your interpretation of "gun culture" but not the one often used as a code word for gun obsessed or that your life revolve around guns or that your main recreational activities are gun related.
By the way other countries have strong ties with guns including my native Italy which has one of the largest gun industry in the world....
You are misunderstanding the term it seems. Sure there are a few who are obsessed and whatnot, but that is not what I mean.
When comparing Canada and the US, it's obvious the difference in how each country approaches guns, especially hand guns. Chevy pointed out quite clearly the law in Canada about using a gun for self defence for example.
Haven't delved too much into this and unsure how accurate this link is, but it puts Italy as a "medium " gun manufacturer out of a 178 countries. Whatever " medium" means.
It also says " Rate of Civilian Firearm Possession per 100 Population
The estimated rate of private gun ownership (both licit and illicit) in Italy is 11.91 firearms per 100 people"
and
"Rate of Civilian Firearm Possession per 100 Population
The estimated rate of private gun ownership (both licit and illicit) in the United States is 101.052 3 1 firearms per 100 people"
The comparison to me, says a lot about gun control laws and the approach to guns in both the US and Italy.
No one is saying criminals won't get guns. It's about how easy it is for people to get guns, that affects gun crime overall.
If the US hadn't gone the way it has in regards to it's 2nd amendment and it's looser gun control laws than Canada, do you think the murder rate in the US would be the same?
There is no proof or logical connection to it....look at Mexico and the vast majority of Latin American countries....strict or even very strict gun control, very high murder rate.
I won't bring up African countries because of their development stage....however South Africa could enter the picture.
Russia is another good example.
Criminals get guns any way they want, if there is a market for it there will be an industry unless you start checking every single container and vehicle that enter the country which is practically impossible, leaving alone inevitable corruption.
Guns can also be easily illegally produced, in many cases is not exactly high tech stuff. There are people capable of producing 1911 pistol and AR receivers in their own garage.
Actually producing simple, small submachine guns is very easy.
Even if we can clamp down illegal importation of guns from overseas (very unlikely), I can imagine someone immediately setting up illegal maquiladoras just south of the border in a territory controlled by the cartels and cranking up cheap firearms like candies.
My take is that gun related crime would be, at best, only very marginally affected in US with stricter gun control. Chicago, Los Angeles and other cities with very strict gun legislation is the proof of that.
Still there are things that need to be done in the US when it comes to guns....harmonization of state legislation and procedures with a common training and proficiency standard for CCW holders and improve gun traceability....it will not reduce crime per se but it will further reduce firearms related accidents (which we saw already are very marginal) and lead to quicker identification of the offending gun in a crime.
Last edited by saturno_v; 06-03-2015 at 02:15 PM..
No one is saying criminals won't get guns. It's about how easy it is for people to get guns, that affects gun crime overall.
If the US hadn't gone the way it has in regards to it's 2nd amendment and it's looser gun control laws than Canada, do you think the murder rate in the US would be the same?
Probably, considering the murder rate in Canada isn't that much lower.
Probably, considering the murder rate in Canada isn't that much lower.
Murder thankfully seems to be going down in both countries...but the stats aren't closing in.
The US had 14,827 murders in 2013. A decline from previous years.
Canada had 505 murders in 2013, also a decline from previous years.
The US of course has 9 times the population of Canada. USA 318 million, Canada 35 million. So if the US murder rate were the same as Canada, you would of had 4,545 murders....you didn't.
There is no proof or logical connection to it....look at Mexico and the vast majority of Latin American countries....strict or even very strict gun control, very high murder rate.
I won't bring up African countries because of their development stage....however South Africa could enter the picture.
Russia is another good example.
Criminals get guns any way they want, if there is a market for it there will be an industry unless you start checking every single container and vehicle that enter the country which is practically impossible, leaving alone inevitable corruption.
Guns can also be easily illegally produced, in many cases is not exactly high tech stuff. There are people capable of producing 1911 pistol and AR receivers in their own garage.
Actually producing simple, small submachine guns is very easy.
Even if we can clamp down illegal importation of guns from overseas (very unlikely), I can imagine someone immediately setting up illegal maquiladoras just south of the border in a territory controlled by the cartels and cranking up cheap firearms like candies.
My take is that gun related crime would be, at best, only very marginally affected in US with stricter gun control. Chicago, Los Angeles and other cities with very strict gun legislation is the proof of that.
Still there are things that need to be done in the US when it comes to guns....harmonization of state legislation and procedures with a common training and proficiency standard for CCW holders and improve gun traceability....it will not reduce crime per se but it will further reduce firearms related accidents (which we saw already are very marginal) and lead to quicker identification of the offending gun in a crime.
Gun Control Laws are only as good as enforcement. Mexico is corrupt, I doubt very much that much enforcement goes on.
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. And I think the 'code word' part you are referring to is an addendum to 'gun culture' but not automatically a part of it, so in my mind those are two separate arguments.
, Wikipedia) but there are many links if you Google 'gun culture' and they don't all pertain to the United States. 
