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In some ways Franco Ontarians have the right mentality for a minority but that's probably just because they never had the majority of the influence in Ontario's history but I know that they are stable or just slightly decreasing in their relative weight, not sure about actual population numbers though.
That's a very interesting comment coming from an anglo in Quebec. I have sometimes thought about that.
The Franco-Ontarian community is relatively stable in total numbers. Some census periods it declines slightly whereas in others it ticks slightly upwards. As you say in relative weight it is definitely declining.
I am not sure where it will go in the future. Hidden behind the mother tongue numbers is the fact that a huge proportion of "Franco-Ontarians" don't really speak French much at all in their everyday lives. Several of my siblings are like this, and while their kids go to French school and speak (somewhat broken) French, I am not sure they will be francophones in their adult lives and when they have their own families.
To a large degree, the Franco-Ontarian community is producing a new generation that we will be primarily anglophones (societally and culturally) but with excellent secondary knowledge of French. This is true even of many kids who go to French school and university in French at the bilingual University of Ottawa or Laurentian University in Sudbury.
So it could very well be that they are headed for a precipitous drop in the total number of francophones in the next demographic generational cohort.
But yes, you are right that their minority attitude allows them to be more at peace with their lives in Ontario. They use French at home and among friends (sometimes) and in their institutions, and it's a *nice bonus* to be able to use it sometimes for government services and in shops and restaurants, etc. But very few of them *insist*, compared to how many anglos in Quebec insist.
On the other hand, the more feisty nature of the anglo community in Quebec has been pretty useful to the community in resisting assimilation and keeping their language relevant in Quebec society. Though it does seem that of late the militancy might be going a bit overboard and as a result, the ensuing "bitterly disappointed expectations" are creating an overwhelming negative "no future", exodus-inducing sentiment in the community that ironically now represents a significant threat to its future.
As an Acadian from Nova Scotia, I find any comparison of Anglo-Quebecers to Francophones from outside of Quebec, frankly, insulting.
Anglo-Quebecers are NOT oppressed.
Many Francophones from outside of Quebec actually are. Look into the gerrymandering by the Nova Scotian government to disenfranchise Acadian (as well as African Nova Scotian) voters.
As for the point of Anglo-Quebecers joining the ranks of the poor: that's not because of oppression, it's because they're ****. They're like white trash in the US, failures at life by their own doing and blame all their problems on Mexicans. The richest people in Quebec are still Anglos. A few francophones joined the rich, sure, but it was not without selling their souls. *cough* the Trudeau family *cough*
I say you all try to find the book "Memoirs of an Acadian Nationalist" by Calixte Savoie. He's from New Brunswick but has insight on the Acadian elite in New Brunswick, and provides an alternative way of gaining wealth than sucking up to Anglos.
I often hear from anglophones that the reason why francophones in Canada were politically and economically marginalized before the Quiet Revolution was mostly (or entirely) due to the Catholic Church, not to the British or Canadian governments, or to Canadian anglophones. And that the Conquest and British colonialism were a positive for francophones, since it "civilized" the country so to speak. So I'm not convinced anglophones really acknowledge this.
That's a very interesting comment coming from an anglo in Quebec. I have sometimes thought about that.
The Franco-Ontarian community is relatively stable in total numbers. Some census periods it declines slightly whereas in others it ticks slightly upwards. As you say in relative weight it is definitely declining.
I am not sure where it will go in the future. Hidden behind the mother tongue numbers is the fact that a huge proportion of "Franco-Ontarians" don't really speak French much at all in their everyday lives. Several of my siblings are like this, and while their kids go to French school and speak (somewhat broken) French, I am not sure they will be francophones in their adult lives and when they have their own families.
To a large degree, the Franco-Ontarian community is producing a new generation that we will be primarily anglophones (societally and culturally) but with excellent secondary knowledge of French. This is true even of many kids who go to French school and university in French at the bilingual University of Ottawa or Laurentian University in Sudbury.
So it could very well be that they are headed for a precipitous drop in the total number of francophones in the next demographic generational cohort.
But yes, you are right that their minority attitude allows them to be more at peace with their lives in Ontario. They use French at home and among friends (sometimes) and in their institutions, and it's a *nice bonus* to be able to use it sometimes for government services and in shops and restaurants, etc. But very few of them *insist*, compared to how many anglos in Quebec insist.
On the other hand, the more feisty nature of the anglo community in Quebec has been pretty useful to the community in resisting assimilation and keeping their language relevant in Quebec society. Though it does seem that of late the militancy might be going a bit overboard and as a result, the ensuing "bitterly disappointed expectations" are creating an overwhelming negative "no future", exodus-inducing sentiment in the community that ironically now represents a significant threat to its future.
I have a relative living in Ottawa who is married to a Franco-Ontarian and I've noticed that despite their children having attended french schools and speaking a bit of french at home, most of their interactions with their school friends is predominantly in English. I've even noticed one of them have some resentment towards the french-language. So if anything, Anglophones attitude in Quebec has done much to at least avoid this sort of situation from happening.This reason and for historical reasons is why I think Anglo-Quebecers and Franco-Ontarians should not be compared when defining the linguistic "rights" that each community should have.
For Example, the fact that such a thing as Franco-Ontarian day exists in Ontario and Anglo-Quebecer day does not exist in Quebec should not be used as a factor to compare the cultural vibrancy in both communities.
Last edited by Nationalistdefeator; 10-05-2015 at 07:52 AM..
I have a relative living in Ottawa who is married to a Franco-Ontarian and I've noticed that despite their children having attended french schools and speaking a bit of french at home, most of their interactions with their school friends is predominantly in English. I've even noticed one of them have some resentment towards the french-language. So if anything, Anglophones attitude in Quebec has done much to at least avoid this sort of situation from happening.This reason and for historical reasons is why I think Anglo-Quebecers and Franco-Ontarians should not be compared when defining the linguistic "rights" that each community should have.
For Example, the fact that such a thing as Franco-Ontarian day exists in Ontario and Anglo-Quebecer day does not exist in Quebec should not be used as a factor to compare the cultural vibrancy in both communities.
Yeah, Franco-Ontarian day (officially "le jour du drapeau franco-ontarien) was just last week.
I have a number of Franco-Ontarian Facebook friends who posted something for that day. In many cases it's the only thing I've ever seen them post in French on Facebook! So they're so proud to be Franco-Ontarian on Sept. 26 (I think that's the date), and in the very next minute they go back to doing everything in English.
And that's not to mention my friends and relatives who actually make Facebook posts on that day that are all about Franco-Ontarian pride... but in ENGLISH!
Just balance things out a bit (as Jambo likes to post linguistic "affronts" from Montreal...), here is a story in the news from Ontario.
The lady asks to have her trial in French. As is her legal right. They tell her no French-speaking judge is available. Then they tell her she gets an interpreter instead. When she shows up for the trial, there is no interpreter. She asks why there isn't one, and the judge chastises her for asking because he says she speaks English just fine. And then he tells her she's wasting taxpayer dollars.
Good example of what the womans rights are and reality,Leave Quebec and go to another part of Canada and a francophone will soon discover that everything is done in English just like an Anglo coming to Quebec will soon discover everything is done in French.
I would have more sympathy for the woman if she were unilingual francophone but in this case i agree with the judge in as much as its a total waste of tax payers money.I think the woman is showing the same attitude as the 7up guy in as much as she is fully bilingual but just wants to be contrary about the issue.
The article didnt mention what the court case was about,perhaps the woman is using the issue to stall the case.
Last edited by jambo101; 12-04-2015 at 02:29 AM..
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