Please register to participate in our discussions with 2 million other members - it's free and quick! Some forums can only be seen by registered members. After you create your account, you'll be able to customize options and access all our 15,000 new posts/day with fewer ads.
Good example of what the womans rights are and reality,Leave Quebec and go to another part of Canada and a francophone will soon discover that everything is done in English just like an Anglo coming to Quebec will soon discover everything is done in French.
I would have more sympathy for the woman if she were unilingual francophone but in this case i agree with the judge in as much as its a total waste of tax payers money.I think the woman is showing the same attitude as the 7up guy in as much as she is fully bilingual but just wants to be contrary about the issue.
The article didnt mention what the court case was about,perhaps the woman is using the issue to stall the case.
I would have bet a million dollars you'd come back with a "Bbbbut... it's not quite the same!" type of post!
Good example of what the womans rights are and reality,Leave Quebec and go to another part of Canada and a francophone will soon discover that everything is done in English just like an Anglo coming to Quebec will soon discover everything is done in French.
I would have more sympathy for the woman if she were unilingual francophone but in this case i agree with the judge in as much as its a total waste of tax payers money.I think the woman is showing the same attitude as the 7up guy in as much as she is fully bilingual but just wants to be contrary about the issue.
The article didnt mention what the court case was about,perhaps the woman is using the issue to stall the case.
Pffft, If I have to deal with the legal system, I am gonna speak French, and I speak English better than most native English-speakers.
*side note: demanding law enforcement speak to you in French (or in Quebec, English) is a good way to get out of speeding tickets. Unless the cop is bilingual, then you're screwed.
The article didnt mention what the court case was about,perhaps the woman is using the issue to stall the case.
That's possible. As a lawyer, I have had clients try to put matters off indefinitely, hoping the court would forget about it, or at least let the paperwork fall behind the filing cabinet and be forgotten. But that doesn't typically happen.
With that said, a French-speaking court can usually be constituted in a typically English-speaking province, complete with French-speaking judge and counsel. A colleague of mine here in Alberta is a native Francophone, and he's not the only one in our province. He's handled matters in Alberta courts before French-speaking judges before, when clients have requested French-speaking trials. They're not unusual--as he tells me, there are a number of French-speakers in northern Alberta, who feel more comfortable before the courts in their native tongue.
But his experience, backed up with mine, leads me to a reasonable conclusion: Mme. Dorcin is trying to delay the inevitable. She speaks English impeccably, as the news item says. She has the opportunity to request a trial in French, but did not do so on her first appearance, as she should have done if French was that important. Likely, she did not so so on her second or third or fifth or tenth appearances. In fairness, I don't know how many appearances she has had, but I have dealt with judges who have said, "Mr. ChevySpoons, your client has had six adjournments; and I won't grant another; it is time for them to plead." My experience leads me to conclude that Mme. Dorcin has exhausted her reasons for adjourning the matter, and the court wants her to fish or cut bait. Or, to put it more crudely, the court wants her to s**t or get off the pot.
An example of how lenient courts can be when language is an issue: I once represented a Korean national in the small town of Taber, Alberta. His English was limited to "Hello," "Goodbye," "Yes," "No," "Please," and "Thank you." The Taber court was happy to grant a six-week adjournment, pending the retention of Korean-English-speaking counsel, or at least an interpreter. I have no doubt that the same, or better, would be offered a French-speaking accused in southern Alberta.
If Mme. Dorcin requests proceedings in French after handling things so far in English, after who-knows-how-many adjournments in English, then I don't blame the judge for blowing up. No judge in this country, in any province, will deny an accused their right to a trial in an official minority language if it is requested at a reasonable time; but they just might get upset if the client has represented in English numerous times, then all of a sudden, can only speak French, in a possible effort to delay things further.
Two things:
-- Why has this gross injustice not been reported in English-language media? Not the Globe and Mail, not the Toronto Star (whom I'd think would be all over it), not CTV, not CBC (isn't that just Radio-Canada in English?), not Global. I welcome correction here, but it seems to be only the French-language media that is making anything out of it. There is nothing in the English media. Maybe Acajack or Migratory Chicken could tip them off--the English-language media have web sites with contact info, and at any rate, their number is in the phone book. I look forward to reading about this in tomorrow's Globe, gentlemen; thanks to your tips.
-- But most importantly: How many court appearances has Mme. Dorcin had before demanding court proceedings occur in French?
Last edited by ChevySpoons; 12-05-2015 at 10:38 PM..
-- Why has this gross injustice not been reported in English-language media? Not the Globe and Mail, not the Toronto Star (whom I'd think would be all over it), not CTV, not CBC (isn't that just Radio-Canada in English?), not Global.
Probably because news media publish what they figure their audience is interested in, and what supports their narrative. A francophone having trouble being served in French, even in the justice system, is not going to impress anglophones, as evidenced by jambo's and your reaction. And it doesn't support the narrative of Canada (outside Quebec) being a bilingual country that's always doing what's best for its francophone minority, as opposed to Quebec trying to stamp English out of existence. Basically anglophones don't want to hear it.
Anglophones being treated badly in Quebec, now that's something anglophones want to hear, and it supports a narrative they want to believe in.
Edit: here I'm not claiming that francophone media is unbiased while anglophone media is biased against francophones, or anything of the sort. Everyone's biased. Stories about francophones being treated badly are promoted in francophone media while anglophones explain that it was probably the victim's fault, while stories about anglophones being treated badly are promoted in anglophone media while francophones explain that it was probably the victim's fault. We all want to think that we're the good guys while those other guys are the jerks. And if we're jerks with them, well, see, they started it.
But it does show that, in Canada, francophones and anglophones are two separate groups that don't really consider the other as part of their "ingroup". They're the other, not part of us. Feel free to tell us that we're the ones who started it and that before the sixties there were no problems and francophones (as long as they spoke English and didn't complain) were considered as part of "us" by anglophones.
Last edited by Migratory Chicken; 12-05-2015 at 11:41 PM..
Probably because news media publish what they figure their audience is interested in, and what supports their narrative. A francophone having trouble being served in French, even in the justice system, is not going to impress anglophones
You kidding me? They'd love it! They could use the story to rant about how francophones are whiners who deserve special treatment. I could see the knuckle-draggers in the CBC comments section right now. Since they cannot hate on indigenous people anymore because CBC disabled the comments on any new stories related to indigenous people, granted there are no more terrorist attacks for a while that will direct them to articles involving Muslims, they'll switch to francophones.
The right to be tried in the language of your choice(French or English)is taken quite seriously and is enshrined in Canadas Charter of rights and freedoms, i'm getting the feeling something is missing in this story.
Did the woman just come to court one day and out of nowhere demand all proceedings be in French,catching a unilingual Anglophone judge in Toronto unprepared .
Are the laws different in this small claims court case?
While the French media is making a big deal about the incident i cant believe had the woman gone through the proper procedures her wishes for the case to be heard in French would have been granted.
You kidding me? They'd love it! They could use the story to rant about how francophones are whiners who deserve special treatment. I could see the knuckle-draggers in the CBC comments section right now. Since they cannot hate on indigenous people anymore because CBC disabled the comments on any new stories related to indigenous people, granted there are no more terrorist attacks for a while that will direct them to articles involving Muslims, they'll switch to francophones.
Yes, but only if the story is a slam-dunk that will prove that point. If there as any doubt that the francophone might be justified in his or her grievances, they generally won't cover the story.
As such, most of these stories don't get covered by the anglo media.
-- But most importantly: How many court appearances has Mme. Dorcin had before demanding court proceedings occur in French?
Regardless, it appears from the story that she asked for a francophone judge beforehand, then was told none was available when she got there.
Then she asked for an interpreter, and she was turned down and chided again.
It seems like she was within her rights as the people in charge of the courts have apologized and said this is not the standard practice for treating francophones who demand proceedings in French.
Probably because news media publish what they figure their audience is interested in, and what supports their narrative. A francophone having trouble being served in French, even in the justice system, is not going to impress anglophones, as evidenced by jambo's and your reaction. And it doesn't support the narrative of Canada (outside Quebec) being a bilingual country that's always doing what's best for its francophone minority, as opposed to Quebec trying to stamp English out of existence. Basically anglophones don't want to hear it.
Anglophones being treated badly in Quebec, now that's something anglophones want to hear, and it supports a narrative they want to believe in.
Edit: here I'm not claiming that francophone media is unbiased while anglophone media is biased against francophones, or anything of the sort. Everyone's biased. Stories about francophones being treated badly are promoted in francophone media while anglophones explain that it was probably the victim's fault, while stories about anglophones being treated badly are promoted in anglophone media while francophones explain that it was probably the victim's fault. We all want to think that we're the good guys while those other guys are the jerks. And if we're jerks with them, well, see, they started it.
But it does show that, in Canada, francophones and anglophones are two separate groups that don't really consider the other as part of their "ingroup". They're the other, not part of us. Feel free to tell us that we're the ones who started it and that before the sixties there were no problems and francophones (as long as they spoke English and didn't complain) were considered as part of "us" by anglophones.
Pretty much. This stuff is never covered unless there is the angle Souriquois mentioned.
If there can be a perception that a francophone is being unreasonable (e.g. 7Up and Air Canada) then it will get wide coverage.
Only a small percentage of the stuff posted by jambo as affronts to anglos gets covered by the francophone media BTW.
Please register to post and access all features of our very popular forum. It is free and quick. Over $68,000 in prizes has already been given out to active posters on our forum. Additional giveaways are planned.
Detailed information about all U.S. cities, counties, and zip codes on our site: City-data.com.
Please register to participate in our discussions with 2 million other members - it's free and quick! Some forums can only be seen by registered members. After you create your account, you'll be able to customize options and access all our 15,000 new posts/day with fewer ads.
