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And ... there's nothing about a man, or a woman, removing his/her hat during a court proceeding that should go by the way of the dodo bird.
Having been in court more that possibly anybody else here, I will say that I agree with men removing their hats in court. I have seen courtroom sheriffs physically remove hats from men in the courtroom, when the men refuse to remove them. If they don't like it, they are free to leave, and the sheriffs will be happy to escort them out.
Why is this a problem? Because you need to show respect for the Judiciary. It is separate from the Executive and Legislative branches, and unlike those branches, is the only place where the common folk can be heard directly. If it is willing to hear you directly, you can at least respect it by removing your hat.
Hint: if you are an accused in a criminal matter, ditch the baseball cap, and put on at least a dress shirt and nice trousers. A wife-beater that says "Pearl Jam North American Tour" and ripped jeans won't necessarily hurt your case, but neither will it help it. You never have a second chance to make a first impression.
I will say that the Court was unsure what to do the day an accused showed up hatless, but with a cigarette perched behind his ear.
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Granted the old English tradition is to wear wigs in court, but that is not practiced in Canada (although the penguin tails are, eh).
No wigs, certainly. But what are "penguin tails"? I've worn barrister's robes before in court; but they never seemed to me to be "penguin tails." I'm curious.
No. The US has a very different judicial system from Canada - hopefully everyone in the US gets that.
Canada is like the UK, Australia, New Zealand, some other colonies like Aruba, and Italy, Germany, Netherlands and so on. All of those judicial systems are the same with each other, and different from the US. The fact that the US endorses capital punishment is along the barbaric thinking of other third world countries; yet the US is unwilling to understand first year psychology of reform versus punishment.
Be careful. Be very careful in your assertions. I have studied the Canadian constitution, the US constitution, and the differences between civil-law and common-law. I have studied the actual Canadian and US documents, and the caselaw that has shaped them. Can you say the same?
Canada uses a common-law system, as does the US, the UK, Australia, and NZ. Other places use a civil law system--including your examples of Aruba, Italy, Germany, and the Netherlands. "Stare decisis" rules in common-law systems. It does not in civil-law systems.
Whether the various US states use capital punishment is up to those states, under the Tenth Amendment to the US Constitution. Regardless, the US uses the same common-law system as Canada, the UK, Australia, NZ, India, Ireland, Pakistan, etc. etc. etc.
Last edited by ChevySpoons; 10-22-2015 at 01:24 AM..
Having been in court more that possibly anybody else here, I will say that I agree with men removing their hats in court. I have seen courtroom sheriffs physically remove hats from men in the courtroom, when the men refuse to remove them. If they don't like it, they are free to leave, and the sheriffs will be happy to escort them out.
Why is this a problem? Because you need to show respect for the Judiciary. It is separate from the Executive and Legislative branches, and unlike those branches, is the only place where the common folk can be heard directly. If it is willing to hear you directly, you can at least respect it by removing your hat.
Hint: if you are an accused in a criminal matter, ditch the baseball cap, and put on at least a dress shirt and nice trousers. A wife-beater that says "Pearl Jam North American Tour" and ripped jeans won't necessarily hurt your case, but neither will it help it. You never have a second chance to make a first impression.
I will say that the Court was unsure what to do the day an accused showed up hatless, but with a cigarette perched behind his ear.
No wigs, certainly. But what are "penguin tails"? I've worn barrister's robes before in court; but they never seemed to me to be "penguin tails." I'm curious.
Kind of depends on whether you're in court as a witness, or a suspect, eh. I too agree with everyone in the courtroom, men and women, removing the baseball cap when the Judge walks into the room. That's just old fashioned traditional Canadian courtesy; culture.
That's the Trudeau situation today as well where it's not okay to remove men from the courtroom for wearing a hat. Today, it's okay for men to wear cowboy hats and baseball hats at the dinner table, in Church, and in the courtroom and there's no one who can say anything about it because there is now a new law that permits everyone to wear whatever they want on the head in any situation in Canada based on personal preference.
I hope this is at least registered with the Status of Women Action Committee as an offence against the rights of women - where Canadian women are now expected to tolerate people in disguise at home, in Church, and in the courtroom. Congratulations to mini-trudeau, but hey, what about the rights of Canadians ... real Canadians excluding newbies and their newbie rules?
In an American context, you are probably correct. But since Canada does not exist within an American context, you could be wrong. Given that most modern western democracies (including Canada) see American conservatism as so far outside the norm as to be laughable (anti-abortion, anti-gay-marriage, anti-single-payer-healthcare, pro-gun), you are incorrect in anything but an American context.
So, you are wrong when you assert that Canadian conservatism is laughable. It is perfectly within the conservative norms for Canada, and other modern western nations.
Kind of depends on whether you're in court as a witness, or a suspect, eh. I too agree with everyone in the courtroom, men and women, removing the baseball cap when the Judge walks into the room. That's just old fashioned traditional Canadian courtesy; culture.
That's the Trudeau situation today as well where it's not okay to remove men from the courtroom for wearing a hat. Today, it's okay for men to wear cowboy hats and baseball hats at the dinner table, in Church, and in the courtroom and there's no one who can say anything about it because there is now a new law that permits everyone to wear whatever they want on the head in any situation in Canada based on personal preference.
I hope this is at least registered with the Status of Women Action Committee as an offence against the rights of women - where Canadian women are now expected to tolerate people in disguise at home, in Church, and in the courtroom. Congratulations to mini-trudeau, but hey, what about the rights of Canadians ... real Canadians excluding newbies and their newbie rules?
What does any of this have to do with Trudeau who has not even taken office yet? And the wearing of the najib was only made illegal in citizenship court in 2011 so not really a long Canadian tradition.
If I go to a resturant the majority of males will be still wearing their hats, either cowboy or ball cap at the table during the meal. It has been this way for over a decade, before Trudeau, before Harper and even before Martin. And men have always had to wear hats in some religions to show respect so to say wearing a hat is not showing respect is perhaps only from one cultural view on not a universal one.
And what new law are you talking about that allows anyone to wear whatever they want on their head in any situation based on personal preference? There are some laws that allow for religious headwear and according to wikipedia I think it was Muslim women may, under certain circumstances, have their face covered in court. Did you know that the woman wearing a najib that was attacked in Winnipeg was born in Canada and according to her when she converted to Islam she choosed to wear it even though her husband did not want her to. Many Canadians seem to think that telling a woman she cannot wear something is giving her freedom, if she had freedom she should be able to wear it or not.
What does any of this have to do with Trudeau who has not even taken office yet? And the wearing of the najib was only made illegal in citizenship court in 2011 so not really a long Canadian tradition.
If I go to a resturant the majority of males will be still wearing their hats, either cowboy or ball cap at the table during the meal. It has been this way for over a decade, before Trudeau, before Harper and even before Martin. And men have always had to wear hats in some religions to show respect so to say wearing a hat is not showing respect is perhaps only from one cultural view on not a universal one.
And what new law are you talking about that allows anyone to wear whatever they want on their head in any situation based on personal preference? There are some laws that allow for religious headwear and according to wikipedia I think it was Muslim women may, under certain circumstances, have their face covered in court. Did you know that the woman wearing a najib that was attacked in Winnipeg was born in Canada and according to her when she converted to Islam she choosed to wear it even though her husband did not want her to. Many Canadians seem to think that telling a woman she cannot wear something is giving her freedom, if she had freedom she should be able to wear it or not.
I get what you're saying about cultural shifts but for myself personally a much more powerful motivator than fitting into the culture of the day would be the sound of my father admonishing me to remove my hat:
When indoors. Yes even public buildings, riding an elevator, whatever.
When talking to a lady.
When being introduced to someone ...anyone.
When arriving at the doorway of any church.
When walking through the front door of any Royal Canadian Legion branch.
When standing on the front porch of my dates house waiting for her to come to the door.
Now at the age of nudging 70 hard, just the thought of his disappointment if I lapse is enough to keep me following those rules. I ain't going to change for a "shift in culture"
I get what you're saying about cultural shifts but for myself personally a much more powerful motivator than fitting into the culture of the day would be the sound of my father admonishing me to remove my hat:
When indoors. Yes even public buildings, riding an elevator, whatever.
When talking to a lady.
When being introduced to someone ...anyone.
When arriving at the doorway of any church.
When walking through the front door of any Royal Canadian Legion branch.
When standing on the front porch of my dates house waiting for her to come to the door.
Now at the age of nudging 70 hard, just the thought of his disappointment if I lapse is enough to keep me following those rules. I ain't going to change for a "shift in culture"
But it matters not what you think people should do the culture of hat wearing has changed years ago and has nothing to do with our current politics. I am not a fan of hats being worn indoors. I do not normally wear one, most a torque in the winter. If you were to go to a Jewish service you would need to put your hat on hence my comment of being cultural context.
I am only half a decade younger so it is not a generational thing. But where I live the farmers, ranchers and oil workers never seem to remove their hats or caps indoors. Don't know about at churches but in restaurants, stores and public buildings.
In an American context, you are probably correct. But since Canada does not exist within an American context, you could be wrong. Given that most modern western democracies (including Canada) see American conservatism as so far outside the norm as to be laughable (anti-abortion, anti-gay-marriage, anti-single-payer-healthcare, pro-gun), you are incorrect in anything but an American context.
So, you are wrong when you assert that Canadian conservatism is laughable. It is perfectly within the conservative norms for Canada, and other modern western nations.
It seems the last four of five pages of posts only prove the OP's assertion: the biggest thing we can howl about when it comes to Stephen Harper are matters related to what people can put on their heads.
Hardly turning Canada upside down.
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