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It always comes down the very similar profile of anyone who commits mass murder..whether it's workplace or sports venues/ clubs/ government buildings/Law Enforcement Police Stations/ and yes even in Canada..Those with mental instability , who feel disenfranchised or marginalized will eventually seek anyway out when psycho-sexual-impotency-unsuccessful always want to go out with a BANG!!
The Flavour of the month or should I say past years IS..Associate yourself with ISIL..That's ensures notoriety for themselves as they leave the world.
What's different from American ( small but LOUD) folks..Love to swallow all the hateful bigoted speech..and fan flames..It's actually undermining what ALL American's seem to demand..FREEDOMS afforded to them under their Constitution. But those fanning those flames conveniently forget all about what else is embedded into that CONSTITUTION! Ohh wait..2nd Amendment does also stand out too!
Canada in general refuses to fall to what GOP Nominee preaches along with social media hyped to blast out and repeat it ad nauseam :roll eyes: The call for banning Muslim refugees/immigrants and Trump's declaration that THEY ARE flooding your boarders is ALL based on LIE's!! Obviously Banning Muslim Immigrants is against the Constitution ( no Religious Tests allowed)!
I say Trump's constant exaggerations of everything will eventually catch up with him.. Your Floods of Syrian Refrugees stand at about 4000 . Canadian Syrian Refugees is already at 27,000+ .. Taking into account Canadian POP is about 10% of USA..Sure sounds Trump's bigotry spreading such LIES smacks of " Fear Mongering" and many here on this site alone have picked up that "Pitch Fork" ..Salem Witch Hunt anyone? https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Refuge...rian_Civil_War
This above kind of explains my remarks about all those with their "Hair on Fire" running around with their Pitch fork propaganda on social media!! The NUMBERS don't lie..but the Trumpster sure does!!
What Mateen did was exactly what the federal government has been warning about with relation to ISIS for two years - the lone wolf inspired by ISIS propaganda and his mosque and his own parents. You can continue to stick your head in the sand, but I live in reality. The FBI and the Obama Administration are covering their you-know-whats on this failure to once again do their jobs.
??? The Catholic Church does consider homosexuality a mortal sin as far as I know.....
Indeed it does. And that's the point I am making. No Catholic priest, bishop, etc. in their right mind would dare speak in public about this and expect it to be OK because it's a religious thing and they get a free pass. And they right: they wouldn't get a free pass if they did.
Depends where you are in the world. This is the same Catholic Church in the linked story. Perhaps it has more to do with how they perceive the reaction of their followers in different parts of the world.
Malawi? Wow, you really went far to dig that one up! Completely different socio-religious climate from Canada or any western country.
BTW, I know that the Catholic church can be anti-gay. I was raised in a Catholic family. My parents went to mass this morning in fact.
But the Catholic church gets taken to task for this. And I'd venture to say that most of the faithful and even a large part of the leadership are not in agreement with some of the old anti-gay, anti-birth control and sexist tenets of the church.
It's nothing short of amazing how adamant some of our gay friends on here (and other forums I frequent) are in their defence of any criticism of Islam.
I mean, I understand that Islamophobia is wrong and just as worthy of being denounced as any other -phobia directed at any other group. But Islam also has a lot of things that it deserves to be criticized for.
So why the focus on defending Islam against criticisms?
Given some of the tenets of Islam (and the levels of adherence of the faithful to them), wouldn't one expect Canadian gays to spend their time defending gay Muslims instead? Many of which are surely suffering oppression under the guise of religion?
Indeed it does. And that's the point I am making. No Catholic priest, bishop, etc. in their right mind would dare speak in public about this and expect it to be OK because it's a religious thing and they get a free pass. And they right: they wouldn't get a free pass if they did.
I must have missed a link as I've no idea what a Catholic bishop wouldn't speak in public about. Are you saying that although the official position of the church is that homosexuality is a sin, no bishop would speak about it and it's just one of those things that exist in the official version of Catholicism?
Quote:
Originally Posted by Acajack;444 74470
I'll say it again.
It's nothing short of amazing how adamant some of our gay friends on here (and other forums I frequent) are in their defence of any criticism of Islam.
I mean, I understand that Islamophobia is wrong and just as worthy of being denounced as any other -phobia directed at any other group. But Islam also has a lot of things that it deserves to be criticized for.
So why the focus on defending Islam against criticisms?
Given some of the tenets of Islam (and the levels of adherence of the faithful to them), wouldn't one expect Canadian gays to spend their time defending gay Muslims instead? Many of which are surely suffering oppression under the guise of religion?
It's all very fishy.
I'm amazed too but in a good way. Two wrongs don't make a right. As to why gays (or anyone for that matter) might be more critical of the Catholic church than Islam, perhaps it has to do with western homosexuals being more familiar with Catholicism than Islam. One always feel more entitled to speak about what one perceives as home base, don't they? It's what we know best and we often have our own backpack of hurts we carry around with us for the rest of our lives so we feel more qualified to criticize it.
I don't find that there is a defence of Islam. I see it a lot more as saying that our cultures all have baggage we don't agree with and not everyone is at the same place in the great dirt road through history. I think that there are circumstances in which progress can be forcefully encouraged, but I also think that cultures have a natural course to follow first. Western societies were not always as lenient or merciful on many issues as they are now. We evolved. Just because some areas of the world are not up to our standards as we like to think about it doesn't mean they aren't getting there. We just didn't all start off in the same spot, and we didn't have the same environment.
The revolution, so to speak, for certain Islamic countries has to come from within.
So far - and I'm hesitating in advance of the 911 tapes to be released tomorrow - more than anything, this shooter appears to have had long standing mental issues that took the road of least resistance. Had he not been raised nominally (or not) Islamic, he would have found himself another 'cause,' and failing to find a cause, no cause at all would also do. At this point he looks to be a nut. Catholics and evangelical Christians also have nuts. Nuts don't have to have any religion at all. I reserve the right to change my opinion in case other information comes out that indicates otherwise.
I don't know what you mean by 'fishy.' Usually 'fishy' means implausible, doesn't it? As when people are giving viewpoints they don't actually have but feel they should have?
I don't find that there is a defence of Islam. I see it a lot more as saying that our cultures all have baggage we don't agree with and not everyone is at the same place in the great dirt road through history....
The revolution, so to speak, for certain Islamic countries has to come from within.
Indeed. I'm reminded of a joke that I recently heard:
Q: How do you keep your Muslim friend from drinking all your beer while you're out fishing?
A: Go fishing with two Muslim friends.
Religious peer pressure can be enormous; coming from family, friends, and acquaintances at the house of worship. "Not at the same place in the great dirt road through history" sums it up pretty well; and I agree that the revolution has to come from within. Muslims themselves have to stand up to the extremists and say, "Y'know what? We're tired of you dictating our faith. From here on in, we're going to at best, ignore you; and at worst, shoot back!
Quote:
So far - and I'm hesitating in advance of the 911 tapes to be released tomorrow - more than anything, this shooter appears to have had long standing mental issues that took the road of least resistance. Had he not been raised nominally (or not) Islamic, he would have found himself another 'cause,' and failing to find a cause, no cause at all would also do. At this point he looks to be a nut.
I agree fully. This guy was a nut, who glommed onto ISIS as some sort of cause. Had ISIS not existed, he would have done it in the name of Timothy McVeigh, or the Branch Davidians, or Jonestown, or the Unabomber, or the Sovereign Citizen Movement. In short, he didn't care about the cause.
He was a time bomb looking for a place to explode. Simple as that.
Indeed. I'm reminded of a joke that I recently heard:
Q: How do you keep your Muslim friend from drinking all your beer while you're out fishing?
A: Go fishing with two Muslim friends.
Religious peer pressure can be enormous; coming from family, friends, and acquaintances at the house of worship. "Not at the same place in the great dirt road through history" sums it up pretty well; and I agree that the revolution has to come from within. Muslims themselves have to stand up to the extremists and say, "Y'know what? We're tired of you dictating our faith. From here on in, we're going to at best, ignore you; and at worst, shoot back!
I agree fully. This guy was a nut, who glommed onto ISIS as some sort of cause. Had ISIS not existed, he would have done it in the name of Timothy McVeigh, or the Branch Davidians, or Jonestown, or the Unabomber, or the Sovereign Citizen Movement. In short, he didn't care about the cause.
He was a time bomb looking for a place to explode. Simple as that.
That's a Mennonite joke! Some versions of Mennonites are anti-alcohol and growing up, one couldn't be sure which ones, and no one wanted (apparently) to have a bad reputation so there are other, similar jokes about Mennonites. I believe I learned later it is also a Baptist joke and might have originated with the Baptists.
I must have missed a link as I've no idea what a Catholic bishop wouldn't speak in public about. Are you saying that although the official position of the church is that homosexuality is a sin, no bishop would speak about it and it's just one of those things that exist in the official version of Catholicism?
When have you heard a Catholic bishop in Canada (or any western country) say in public that homosexuality is a "mortal" sin?
When have you heard a Catholic bishop in Canada (or any western country) say in public that homosexuality is a "mortal" sin?
I'm not Catholic so I wouldn't know. I looked up some Catholic websites and they all seem to state more clearly and directly than many Protestant churches that homosexuality is a sin.
I'm not Catholic so I wouldn't know. I looked up some Catholic websites and they all seem to state more clearly and directly than many Protestant churches that homosexuality is a sin.
As I said, the Catholic church does have some problematic aspects to it, especially in the treatment of gays and women.
My point is that it even though this is official Catholic doctrine, in everyday practice in the church and among the faithful it is downplayed if not even largely ignored. Unless you try to push the issue to the max and try to have a gay marriage or a female priest.
My sources for this: my parents and my in-laws who are practising Catholics, other relatives who teach in Catholic schools, and also nieces and nephews who go to Catholic schools. (All of these people live in Ontario BTW.)
The reason the church downplays these aspects of the doctrine is obviously because most of the ''flock'' would not be on board for homophobic or sexist bombast, for example.
They also downplay the Catholic doctrine when it comes to contraception. They are even uneasy about talking about abortion. (At least the French Canadian Catholic church is.)
With some exceptions, the Catholic church and its followers behave this way in most of the western world.
Obviously it's not the same in countries like Malawi (cited by Nat!) where you have other factors at play, not the least of which is the fact that Catholicism there (as in much of sub-Saharan Africa) is kind of in a ''competition'' with Islam, whose number of followers is growing rapidly.
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Two wrongs don't make a right. As to why gays (or anyone for that matter) might be more critical of the Catholic church than Islam, perhaps it has to do with western homosexuals being more familiar with Catholicism than Islam. One always feel more entitled to speak about what one perceives as home base, don't they? It's what we know best and we often have our own backpack of hurts we carry around with us for the rest of our lives so we feel more qualified to criticize it.
