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Old 04-29-2017, 08:36 PM
 
22,752 posts, read 13,829,459 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by markjames68 View Post
Actually, the US has been paying for part of it. $86M from the State Department in 2015 for new checkpoints, road blocks, inspection procedures, etc.
That's sorta like the deal we've been forced to swallow just to build a new bridge to the U.S.. We gotta pay for the whole thing plus the U.S. border inspection stations on their side. Great neighbour.
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Old 04-30-2017, 12:54 AM
 
10,847 posts, read 13,453,579 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by cdnirene View Post
Everyone? The comments I've read by Americans are simply skepticism about Trump's claims that he can make Mexico pay for the wall and that the wall would be effective. Does an American have to be a "self-righteous liberal" to object to having to pay for a wall they don't believe will be effective?

As far as Mexico building a wall to keep out Central Americans, as far as I know Mexico is not claiming that they will force Central America to pay for it.
The point is not about payment. It is about "keeping illegal immigrants out of the country". The US does it to Mexico, and Mexico does it to central America. The fact many "self-righteous liberals" (they are not just against paying for the wall, they are against the proposition to deport illegal immigrants) think Mexico is being unfairly victimized is laughable and ignorance. They are far more xenophobic than Trump.
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Old 04-30-2017, 05:43 AM
 
22,752 posts, read 13,829,459 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by botticelli View Post
The point is not about payment. It is about "keeping illegal immigrants out of the country". The US does it to Mexico, and Mexico does it to central America. The fact many "self-righteous liberals" (they are not just against paying for the wall, they are against the proposition to deport illegal immigrants) think Mexico is being unfairly victimized is laughable and ignorance. They are far more xenophobic than Trump.
Regardless of their xenophobia; it took both parties subsequent elections and having the authority to stop it but didn't. It suited American's just fine for many decades of them being allowed to enter unfettered, to stay unchallenged, to be awarded benefits and driver's licenses until the American middle class began to wither under economic policies of their own making.

They now resort to electing someone who doesn't shive-a-git for anyone but himself but who spouts what they want to hear in an endless tirade of inane stupidity. They now behave like it was all someone else's fault illegals were given free entry for at least FIVE DECADES!
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Old 04-30-2017, 09:43 AM
 
Location: Toronto
13,340 posts, read 13,552,853 times
Reputation: 4283
Quote:
Originally Posted by BruSan View Post
Regardless of their xenophobia; it took both parties subsequent elections and having the authority to stop it but didn't. It suited American's just fine for many decades of them being allowed to enter unfettered, to stay unchallenged, to be awarded benefits and driver's licenses until the American middle class began to wither under economic policies of their own making.

They now resort to electing someone who doesn't shive-a-git for anyone but himself but who spouts what they want to hear in an endless tirade of inane stupidity. They now behave like it was all someone else's fault illegals were given free entry for at least FIVE DECADES!
LOL this is the thing. Its the same with NAFTA.. That agreement went through three Presidents from creation to enactment (Reagan, H.W Bush and Clinton - Two Rep and 1 Dem) and 12 updates since and suddenly its a DISASTER for American workers and America as if America had nothing to do with it when they had everything to do with it. What are they going to do when they 'Terminate' NAFTA and suddenly the lights go off and there are gas shortages because the stable and very fairly priced energy they are getting (as prescribed in NAFTA) comes from Canada is suddenly terminated? I mean if the agreement is terminated doesn't that mean everything that is part of the agreement ends

As for Mexico's stand on Central America - this may become a 'disaster' with this whole Wall thing with Mexico because the Mexicans have been working very hard to curb Central American gangs from entering the U.S, but now they might not be so inclined with this 'sudden' about face of American policy towards Mexico. Fact is lots of Central Americans have been sent back to Central America from Mexico and they are criminal elements - the Mexicans may just look to them and deport them North - underneath that big shiny wall that will become a fence because realizations of HOW MUCH it will cost will become a reality and it will never be built as prescribed.

Like Canada, Mexico is already looking at other options for their goods/services. Farmers in the U.S are having a conniption fit because now Mexico is looking at other countries for everything from Maize to Milk (largest consumers of American Maize and Dairy in the world)

https://www.bloomberg.com/news/artic...is-now-at-risk

I don't think Americans realize how much of an impact their new President Is having on international affairs and how this will impact them negatively. Foreign countries don't have nearly as much tolerance for his bully approach as they get off on and diplomacy and words matter greatly in International affairs. You cannot say a bunch of crap about another country and then say oh well I didn't mean it LOL - no these countries aren't LOL they are actually making plans to distance themselves from you as much as possible because you acted like a Buffoon. I know Trump thinks negotiating using the bully pulpit is the way to go in International affairs but it most certainly is not because Politicians answer to voters and voters don't quite appreciate that their country was smashed by a foreign leader on 'Fake' news.

Finally and then vent finished - When Americans are suddenly paying thousands more for a home are they going to even realize it is because of this Buffoon's soon to be Tariffs on softwood lumber. Great for American Timber companies but not so good for joe blow wanting to buy a home in Akron.. Joe Blow family from Akron might not be making that yearly road trip to the Smoky mountains as a result. Cause and effect....

Last edited by fusion2; 04-30-2017 at 09:55 AM..
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Old 04-30-2017, 10:02 AM
 
22,752 posts, read 13,829,459 times
Reputation: 16828
Quote:
Originally Posted by fusion2 View Post
LOL this is the thing. Its the same with NAFTA.. That agreement went through three Presidents from creation to enactment (Reagan, H.W Bush and Clinton - Two Rep and 1 Dem) and 12 updates since and suddenly its a DISASTER for American workers and America as if America had nothing to do with it when they had everything to do with it. What are they going to do when they 'Terminate' NAFTA and suddenly the lights go off and there are gas shortages because the stable and very fairly priced energy they are getting (as prescribed in NAFTA) comes from Canada is suddenly terminated? I mean if the agreement is terminated doesn't that mean everything that is part of the agreement ends

As for Mexico's stand on Central America - this may become a 'disaster' with this whole Wall thing with Mexico because the Mexicans have been working very hard to curb Central American gangs from entering the U.S, but now they might not be so inclined with this 'sudden' about face of American policy towards Mexico. Fact is lots of Central Americans have been sent back to Central America from Mexico and they are criminal elements - the Mexicans may just look to them and deport them North - underneath that big shiny wall that will become a fence because realizations of HOW MUCH it will cost will become a reality and it will never be built as prescribed.

Like Canada, Mexico is already looking at other options for their goods/services. Farmers in the U.S are having a conniption fit because now Mexico is looking at other countries for everything from Maize to Milk (largest consumers of American Maize and Dairy in the world)

https://www.bloomberg.com/news/artic...is-now-at-risk

I don't think Americans realize how much of an impact their new President Is having on international affairs and how this will impact them negatively. Foreign countries don't have nearly as much tolerance for his bully approach as they get off on and diplomacy and words matter greatly in International affairs. You cannot say a bunch of crap about another country and then say oh well I didn't mean it LOL - no these countries aren't LOL they are actually making plans to distance themselves from you as much as possible because you acted like a Buffoon. I know Trump thinks negotiating using the bully pulpit is the way to go in International affairs but it most certainly is not because Politicians answer to voters and voters don't quite appreciate that their country was smashed by a foreign leader on 'Fake' news.

Finally and then vent finished - When Americans are suddenly paying thousands more for a home are they going to even realize it is because of this Buffoon's soon to be Tariffs on softwood lumber. Great for American Timber companies but not so good for joe blow wanting to buy a home in Akron.. Joe Blow family from Akron might not be making that yearly road trip to the Smoky mountains as a result. Cause and effect....
The most salient point of all is it's the foreign stuff coming in that keeps their free market method of screwing their own people from running completely unfettered. Health care being just one stellar example.

Left to their own devices the American greed aspect would have them selling their blood by the pint to buy their next meal.
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Old 04-30-2017, 02:54 PM
 
Location: Toronto
13,340 posts, read 13,552,853 times
Reputation: 4283
Quote:
Originally Posted by BruSan View Post
The most salient point of all is it's the foreign stuff coming in that keeps their free market method of screwing their own people from running completely unfettered. Health care being just one stellar example.

Left to their own devices the American greed aspect would have them selling their blood by the pint to buy their next meal.
Well their going to have to sell more blood for that next meal. I read that the tariffs on softwood lumber will ultimately hit the American homebuyer to the tune of over 1200 bucks per SFH. That'll help struggling families in the U.S for sure

Last edited by fusion2; 04-30-2017 at 03:12 PM..
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Old 04-30-2017, 04:28 PM
 
14,398 posts, read 9,217,968 times
Reputation: 14104
Quote:
Originally Posted by BruSan View Post
That's sorta like the deal we've been forced to swallow just to build a new bridge to the U.S.. We gotta pay for the whole thing plus the U.S. border inspection stations on their side. Great neighbour.
Worse. Note this is for border crossings between Mexico and Guatemala and Belize. It would be like Canada paying for border inspection stations in Tijuana.
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Old 04-30-2017, 07:24 PM
 
22,752 posts, read 13,829,459 times
Reputation: 16828
Quote:
Originally Posted by markjames68 View Post
Worse. Note this is for border crossings between Mexico and Guatemala and Belize. It would be like Canada paying for border inspection stations in Tijuana.
Haaar! Don't say that too loudly; someone might think that's a good idea and pony up our tax dollars.
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Old 05-01-2017, 02:03 AM
 
10,847 posts, read 13,453,579 times
Reputation: 7827
Quote:
Originally Posted by BruSan View Post
Regardless of their xenophobia; it took both parties subsequent elections and having the authority to stop it but didn't. It suited American's just fine for many decades of them being allowed to enter unfettered, to stay unchallenged, to be awarded benefits and driver's licenses until the American middle class began to wither under economic policies of their own making.

They now resort to electing someone who doesn't shive-a-git for anyone but himself but who spouts what they want to hear in an endless tirade of inane stupidity. They now behave like it was all someone else's fault illegals were given free entry for at least FIVE DECADES!
you are not making sense.

The fact Mexicans were allowed to enter unfetted doesn't make it legal, nor does it "it suits just fine". And it definitely doesn't mean America can't start to enforce the law strictly now.

The previous governments were defininitely wrong and irresponsible for not property securing its borders, but it is definitely wrong to enter a country with proper document too - that's why it is called "illegal".

Imagine this: one day you decide to hold a big party in your house welcoming everyone to enter and have a good meal, and invitation optional. Does that mean you don't reserve the right to keep your door shut to uninvited guests tomorrow?

America is still Americans' country. They can choose to let people in "unfettered" when they want, and they can ask them out when they don't like it (if those still remain illegal), and there is nothing wrong with that.
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Old 05-01-2017, 02:10 AM
 
10,847 posts, read 13,453,579 times
Reputation: 7827
Quote:
Originally Posted by fusion2 View Post
LOL this is the thing. Its the same with NAFTA.. ....
It is not the same thing with NAFTA.

NAFTA is a trade agreement signed by both governments. It is a legally binding document. Neither country did anything illegal.

The fact the US has let in illegal immigrants unfettered for decades doesn't make illegal immigrants legal. And the US can stop allowing them to enter or stay anytime it wants. Actually, any country can abruply stop any immigrants from coming anytime it wants.
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