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Old 12-20-2021, 07:58 PM
 
Location: Vancouver
18,504 posts, read 15,602,075 times
Reputation: 11937

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Quote:
Originally Posted by Urban Peasant View Post
Yeah, all bark and no bite, I'm afraid. Good luck enforcing that. How is any community going to enforce something like that without sentries at every corner checking documents and counting how many people are going into your home? That's going to cost a fortune just to hire personnel. Our mayor just instituted a vaccine passport rule for restaurants, pubs, and gymnasiums to take effect in January. I have no idea how she's going to enforce it in a free society like ours. In China yes, in North America, tsk tsk.
During a pandemic, we give up certain freedoms for the common good.

We have vaccine passports here and they work well. Pubs and restaurants have been busy. The ones that don't comply, are warned, and then if they still don't comply, lose their business license temporarily, plus fines.

However, those are very rare, since most business people are in business to make money and stay open and it's a simple process that takes seconds.

Last edited by Natnasci; 12-20-2021 at 08:10 PM..

 
Old 12-20-2021, 08:44 PM
 
Location: Boston, MA
3,976 posts, read 5,791,219 times
Reputation: 4744
Quote:
Originally Posted by Natnasci View Post
During a pandemic, we give up certain freedoms for the common good.

We have vaccine passports here and they work well. Pubs and restaurants have been busy. The ones that don't comply, are warned, and then if they still don't comply, lose their business license temporarily, plus fines.

However, those are very rare, since most business people are in business to make money and stay open and it's a simple process that takes seconds.

Don't get me wrong, I'm all for vaccine passports. New York, Philadelphia, and several other major cities have already instituted them as did of course much of Canada. Heck, since the pandemic began, I dined inside a restaurant only twice, and both times they were during slow hours. If I had it my way, I could care less if they temporarily prohibited indoor dining until the pandemic subsides again (probably in the Spring) and forced every business to do only takeout. I don't make the rules however and what I am saying is that down here, vaccine passports will not be as easy to enforce. I sincerely doubt that every restaurant and pub is going to diligently check everyone's vaccine passport, we have many anti-vaxxers down here even in supposedly liberal New England, and all it takes is a small group of individuals willing to go elsewhere to put a dent in business. That is of course unless we have a national vaccine passport mandate but tell that to our conservatives and they'll shoot down the mandate right away. Perhaps all Canadian businesses have the will to enforce the passports because Canada does believe more in the common good than the US and Canada has enough manpower to check up constantly on enforcement but we don't.

But as to UrbanLuis's post, the thought of regulating the number of individuals in a private household gathering by reducing from 10 to 5 at a time seems far fetched even for Canadian standards don't you think? You can encourage and recommend people to not gather in large numbers and knowing that more Canadians are right minded enough to abide but still how and to what extent are you going to enforce it? Unless of course as in other parts of the world with zero tolerance policy, 1, maybe even 2 in 3 individuals have been put to the task of enforcing mandates and lawbreakers will be forced to isolate, and I mean forced to isolate. Does Canada have that capability?
 
Old 12-20-2021, 11:35 PM
 
Location: Canada
7,309 posts, read 9,353,706 times
Reputation: 9859
Quote:
Originally Posted by Urban Peasant View Post
Don't get me wrong, I'm all for vaccine passports. New York, Philadelphia, and several other major cities have already instituted them as did of course much of Canada. Heck, since the pandemic began, I dined inside a restaurant only twice, and both times they were during slow hours. If I had it my way, I could care less if they temporarily prohibited indoor dining until the pandemic subsides again (probably in the Spring) and forced every business to do only takeout. I don't make the rules however and what I am saying is that down here, vaccine passports will not be as easy to enforce. I sincerely doubt that every restaurant and pub is going to diligently check everyone's vaccine passport, we have many anti-vaxxers down here even in supposedly liberal New England, and all it takes is a small group of individuals willing to go elsewhere to put a dent in business. That is of course unless we have a national vaccine passport mandate but tell that to our conservatives and they'll shoot down the mandate right away. Perhaps all Canadian businesses have the will to enforce the passports because Canada does believe more in the common good than the US and Canada has enough manpower to check up constantly on enforcement but we don't.

But as to UrbanLuis's post, the thought of regulating the number of individuals in a private household gathering by reducing from 10 to 5 at a time seems far fetched even for Canadian standards don't you think? You can encourage and recommend people to not gather in large numbers and knowing that more Canadians are right minded enough to abide but still how and to what extent are you going to enforce it? Unless of course as in other parts of the world with zero tolerance policy, 1, maybe even 2 in 3 individuals have been put to the task of enforcing mandates and lawbreakers will be forced to isolate, and I mean forced to isolate. Does Canada have that capability?
Here in Canada private gatherings have been restricted from the beginning of the pandemic. When covid numbers increase, various restrictions depending on the province kick in. Right now in Manitoba it's 10 VACCINATED guests per household and 5 if unvaccinated. https://www.google.com/amp/s/beta.ct...12121.amp.html

How is it enforced? Well, vaccinated neighbours who are sick to death of anti-vaxxers and having to go through restriction after restriction by those too dumb to to realise this is an emergency can call the police if they have reason to believe you're breaking the rules. The police or some other enforcement agency can break up the party and people can be met with fines and even jail time.

If restaurants don't check vaccine passports, they can be fined and shut down altogether.

We have been doing it and we are doing it snd since anti-vaxxers are in the minority, there is certainly the public will to enforce it. Does that mean that every single rule breaker is caught? No. I'm sure relatively few rule breakers are caught. People don't feel comfortable informing on neighbours but there are in fact statistics published here on how many calls people make to a crime-stoppers type anonymous line. The police though try to educate and give warnings long before people are hit with fines.

The trouble is that the health care system is being overwhelmed and other medical services postponed and canceled because the anti-vaxxers are taking up space in hospitals. How fair is that?
 
Old 12-21-2021, 11:44 AM
 
Location: Vancouver
18,504 posts, read 15,602,075 times
Reputation: 11937
Quote:
Originally Posted by Urban Peasant View Post
Don't get me wrong, I'm all for vaccine passports. New York, Philadelphia, and several other major cities have already instituted them as did of course much of Canada. Heck, since the pandemic began, I dined inside a restaurant only twice, and both times they were during slow hours. If I had it my way, I could care less if they temporarily prohibited indoor dining until the pandemic subsides again (probably in the Spring) and forced every business to do only takeout. I don't make the rules however and what I am saying is that down here, vaccine passports will not be as easy to enforce. I sincerely doubt that every restaurant and pub is going to diligently check everyone's vaccine passport, we have many anti-vaxxers down here even in supposedly liberal New England, and all it takes is a small group of individuals willing to go elsewhere to put a dent in business. That is of course unless we have a national vaccine passport mandate but tell that to our conservatives and they'll shoot down the mandate right away. Perhaps all Canadian businesses have the will to enforce the passports because Canada does believe more in the common good than the US and Canada has enough manpower to check up constantly on enforcement but we don't.

But as to UrbanLuis's post, the thought of regulating the number of individuals in a private household gathering by reducing from 10 to 5 at a time seems far fetched even for Canadian standards don't you think? You can encourage and recommend people to not gather in large numbers and knowing that more Canadians are right minded enough to abide but still how and to what extent are you going to enforce it? Unless of course as in other parts of the world with zero tolerance policy, 1, maybe even 2 in 3 individuals have been put to the task of enforcing mandates and lawbreakers will be forced to isolate, and I mean forced to isolate. Does Canada have that capability?
What Netwit said

I would also add that the health authorities and health ministries etc, aren't stupid. They know you can't enforce every rule in every residence. They are hoping for people to use common sense. Most do, and that is better than having no restrictions, and everyone doing as they please.
 
Old 12-21-2021, 06:21 PM
 
Location: Boston, MA
3,976 posts, read 5,791,219 times
Reputation: 4744
Well I am happy to hear that the Canadians have more common sense and communal respect than the Americans. If the bark is enough to scare people to order, then I suppose there is no need to bite. Not down here I'm afraid. I still see a lot of unmasked people everywhere, even our own government officials are going around without masks on. You can't lead by example that way and if not, then so much for enforcing anything with a stick. I swear at times I think of the Canadians as the Vulcans i.e. the ones who think logically while the Americans are the Romulans, the violent, militaristic individuals who like to fight and challenge each other even for intellectual supremacy.
 
Old 12-21-2021, 10:08 PM
 
Location: Canada
14,735 posts, read 15,106,235 times
Reputation: 34882
Quote:
Originally Posted by Urban Peasant View Post
Well I am happy to hear that the Canadians have more common sense and communal respect than the Americans. If the bark is enough to scare people to order, then I suppose there is no need to bite. Not down here I'm afraid. I still see a lot of unmasked people everywhere, even our own government officials are going around without masks on. You can't lead by example that way and if not, then so much for enforcing anything with a stick. I swear at times I think of the Canadians as the Vulcans i.e. the ones who think logically while the Americans are the Romulans, the violent, militaristic individuals who like to fight and challenge each other even for intellectual supremacy.
LOL. I'm glad to see I'm not the only one who thought that, except that I was comparing Americans with the Klingons (like Lt. Worf from The Next Generation Star Trek series).

.
 
Old 12-22-2021, 11:25 AM
 
Location: Canada
7,309 posts, read 9,353,706 times
Reputation: 9859
More like the Ferengi.
 
Old 12-25-2021, 07:51 AM
 
Location: Elsewhere
88,710 posts, read 85,080,510 times
Reputation: 115319
We also have some Borg. They post on Politics & Other Controversies.
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Old 12-25-2021, 08:07 AM
 
22,923 posts, read 15,525,116 times
Reputation: 16962
Quote:
Originally Posted by Mightyqueen801 View Post
We also have some Borg. They post on Politics & Other Controversies.
Now, that right there made my Xmas day!

I'm somewhat guilty of having been "assimilated".
 
Old 12-25-2021, 11:47 AM
 
Location: Canada
14,735 posts, read 15,106,235 times
Reputation: 34882
Quote:
Originally Posted by netwit View Post
More like the Ferengi.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Mightyqueen801 View Post
We also have some Borg. They post on Politics & Other Controversies.
BWAHAHAHA !!! Too funny!

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