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Well you have to look at some possible motives the U.S is doing this as well. This action while far from being anything more than a nominal slap on the bum to the Assad regime (the U.S gave advanced notice to Russia the strike was going to happen so they could clear out for example). If the U.S really wanted to hit Assad hard they wouldn't have attacked Sharyat - they would have focussed those missiles on real C and C targets. This was nothing but a love tap..
All said it could be a way of ending the view that Trump is in the back pocket of Putin. That idea has been seriously deflated in this strike both at home and abroad. It could also serve as a statement to Kim who is actually the real target here to say, we won't hesitate to use our assets to defend our interests and if you think we won't against you, you may have another thing coming - i'm not Obama here so don't mess with me! That said, I can see why Populists are seriously butt hurt now - they thought they weren't getting a hawk like Clinton and they may have put in a more unstable one who is on steroids with funky hair and orange complexion - ding ding ding.... Alex Jones is spinning around like a Cat 5 hurricane right now lol...
Finally we agree on something
I even go further and speculate that it is an arrangement between Russia, US and Syria. That air base was supposed to be eliminated a long time ago. Everyone is just playing his role
Biggest winner is Mr. Trump. Look, even you are bostonkid love him now. hahahahah~~~ He must have hired a great PR professional
I cannot agree with Botti more......my gosh watching the news has been painful in the last days, the war cheerleading is truly nauseating...."Trump is finally the president" and BS like that....
Is equally sad to realize over and over how the general populace is so dumb and easy to manipulate....even watching some of the responses on this thread....truly hopeless....
Not even commenting on Trudeau.....the guy is an empty suit but what is new??
Assad is a SOB but one thing for sure he is not stupid.....so until last week he is on the winning side, finally got the US to drop its request for his removal and there are talk of peace conference and.....drumroll.....what he does?? He decides suddenly to drop a chemical agent in a non strategic location and not even making a lot of damage...so this is what you people easily believe?? So we decide for good measure to rain on them a bunch of Tomahawks after one or two days without any shred of evidence of responsibility?? Is not like there is no proof that the rebels used chemical agents before right?? Well wrong.....
...also, is not like we ever started a war on false pretense in the past right??
Cui Prodest?? Who does benefit from this?? Think about it......Assad had everything to lose (and Russia too since they put their international reputation on the line when they brokered the chemical weapons deal in 2013 and I'm pretty sure they leaned heavily on Assad about not doing anything stupid) while the rebels have everything to gain..
Saying that this thing is fishy is an huge understatement.....
Last edited by saturno_v; 04-11-2017 at 12:21 PM..
I cannot agree with Botti more......my gosh watching the news has been painful in the last days, the war cheerleading is truly nauseating...."Trump is finally the president" and BS like that....
Is equally sad to realize over and over how the general populace is so dumb and easy to manipulate....even watching some of the responses on this thread....truly hopeless....
Not even commenting on Trudeau.....the guy is an empty suit but what is new??
Assad is a SOB but one thing for sure he is not stupid.....so until last week he is on the winning side, finally got the US to drop its request for his removal and there are talk of peace conference and.....drumroll.....what he does?? He decides suddenly to drop a chemical agent in a non strategic location and not even making a lot of damage...so this is what you people easily believe?? So we decide for good measure to rain on them a bunch of Tomahawks after one or two days without any shred of evidence of responsibility?? Is not like there is no proof that the rebels used chemical agents before right?? Well wrong.....
...also, is not like we ever started a war on false pretense in the past right??
Cui Prodest?? Who does benefit from this?? Think about it......Assad had everything to lose (and Russia too since they put their international reputation on the line when they brokered the chemical weapons deal in 2013 and I'm pretty sure they leaned heavily on Assad about not doing anything stupid) while the rebels have everything to gain..
Saying that this thing is fishy is an huge understatement.....
Glad we agree on this. This is what years of exposure to the same media does. Your view and understanding about the world is shaped by what is constantly told. People are so used to the childish ”bad guy vs. good guy" story the mainstream media keeps feeding them as if the atrocities in the a country is solely due to one dictator and by removing him everything will be better. It is really unfortunate.
So many lessons told us middle east is too complicated and that dictators CAN'T simply be removed. It leads to catastophe and the west is totally uncapable of controling the situation. Yet everytime when they see a carefully manipulated photo for specific *marketing* purposes, they fall for the trap and respond exactly the way they are expecte too each time.
I still maintain my position that for the Syrian civilians' sake, we should all try to destroy ISIS, stop supporting the "rebels" and help Assad regain control of the country. It is not a matter of morality about "dictators" or "murderers", it is about the fact the Assad is best chance to keep Syria together, stop the endless civilian suffering, no matter how much we resent him. We should all be aware that Assad will not kill his citizens and bomb hospitals for no reason (not to say he didn't or will not) because despite his atrocity, he wants to have the country together and get out of wars, but the rebels and terrorists will not hesitate to kill and they prefer chaos.
The whole thing is not about our moral standards. It is about choosing the least harmful way to save the Syrians. If the west had not supported rebels for selfish reasons, they would have been suppressed a long time ago, the civil war would have ended, millions of lives would have been saved and the whole migrant crisis wouldn't have happened. -- yes, it would mean Assad would get away from his brutality, but we would just have to live with it.
And speaking of "brutality" toward people, Assad, Saddam and Gaddafi are no worse than the Saudi or Bahrain kings. In fact, before the war, those were the most secular and relatively free countries in the Middle East. Yet we decide to kill the dictators of these countries, and sell millions dollars worth of weapon to those in other countries. Morality? Western countries should be ashamed of themselves, including Canada.
Is it a cooincidemce all the arab countries that suffered from wars were ideologically different from the west in the beginning? Do we think there were not rebels against the Saudi King for freedom and democracy? But we choose not to support and arm those rebels, not care about freedom in those countries, and we choose to let Syria, Iraq and Libya fall apart and let millions of people die or suffer from the chaos, and we still pretend that we are simply making difficult choices, that we are still moral countries, and that protecting freedom has anything to do with what we choose to do. It is just disgusting.
Last edited by botticelli; 04-11-2017 at 01:18 PM..
Glad we agree on this. This is what years of exposure to the same media does. Your view and understanding about the world is shaped by what is constantly told. People are so used to the childish â€bad guy vs. good guy" story the mainstream media keeps feeding them as if the atrocities in the a country is solely due to one dictator and by removing him everything will be better. It is really unfortunate.
So many lessons told us middle east is too complicated and that dictators CAN'T simply be removed. It leads to catastophe and the west is totally uncapable of controling the situation. Yet everytime when they see a carefully manipulated photo for specific *marketing* purposes, they fall for the trap and respond exactly the way they are expecte too each time.
I still maintain my position that for the Syrian civilians' sake, we should all try to destroy ISIS, stop supporting the "rebels" and help Assad regain control of the country. It is not a matter of morality about "dictators" or "murderers", it is about the fact the Assad is best chance to keep Syria together, stop the endless civilian suffering, no matter how much we resent him. We should all be aware that Assad will not kill his citizens and bomb hospitals for no reason (not to say he didn't or will not) because despite his atrocity, he wants to have the country together and get out of wars, but the rebels and terrorists will not hesitate to kill and they prefer chaos.
The whole thing is not about our moral standards. It is about choosing the least harmful way to save the Syrians. If the west had not supported rebels for selfish reasons, they would have been suppressed a long time ago, the civil war would have ended, millions of lives would have been saved and the whole migrant crisis wouldn't have happened. -- yes, it would mean Assad would get away from his brutality, but we would just have to live with it.
And speaking of "brutality" toward people, Assad, Saddam and Gaddafi are no worse than the Saudi or Bahrain kings. In fact, before the war, those were the most secular and relatively free countries in the Middle East. Yet we decide to kill the dictators of these countries, and sell millions dollars worth of weapon to those in other countries. Morality? Western countries should be ashamed of themselves, including Canada.
Is it a cooincidemce all the arab countries that suffered from wars were ideologically different from the west in the beginning? Do we think there were not rebels against the Saudi King for freedom and democracy? But we choose not to support and arm those rebels, not care about freedom in those countries, and we choose to let Syria, Iraq and Libya fall apart and let millions of people die or suffer from the chaos, and we still pretend that we are simply making difficult choices, that we are still moral countries, and that protecting freedom has anything to do with what we choose to do. It is just disgusting.
When I talk to people about this topic often I feel like talking to a 10 years old.....just read some of the comments on this thread.....
I even go further and speculate that it is an arrangement between Russia, US and Syria. That air base was supposed to be eliminated a long time ago. Everyone is just playing his role
Biggest winner is Mr. Trump. Look, even you are bostonkid love him now. hahahahah~~~ He must have hired a great PR professional
Think about it - if Trump tipped off Russia before the strike -clearly Russia would tip off the Assad regime. This strike wasn't meant to be at all crippling.. If it was, Trump wouldn't have tipped anyone off and would have targeted more strategic and important locations with no warning at all.. Even the Russian barracks area of the base were not harmed. They didn't bomb the Runway either so the next day Syrian Migs were taking off lol. There is a lot going on here that probably we aren't privy too. As I said though, if there is the smallest chance that this will halt even some chem weapons usage it is a very slight victory.
I can't speak for BK but I don't love Trump at all actually - especially re domestic policy. I think he is too impressionable and unstable. All said, i'm not going to always disagree with him. I think he is right about Keystone XL. Transporting oil from Alberta by train is FAR more dangerous than through pipelines. There are already thousands of pipelines running across N.A - wtf is the big deal about building a newer, safer and more modernized one that will create jobs and improve logistical efficiencies. With or without Keystone will make zero difference to the environment.
Same with you - we often have different opinions but it doesn't mean I never agree with you. If I agree with an idea I agree with it - if I don't I don't
When I talk to people about this topic often I feel like talking to a 10 years old.....just read some of the comments on this thread.....
Oh right - everyone who doesn't support what you do is a 10 year old. I guess that is the tactic now. If you don't follow my narrative type of thing you are dumb and childish.
Quote:
Originally Posted by saturno_v
We do not have as much geopolitical interest in the area??
In the general area yes, in Syria specifically I don't think so. The U.S already has multiple countries in the area to stage their war machine. Russia not so much.
@botti and saturno - why couldn't Assad have figured that since Trump stated that he wasn't interested in regime change, there wouldn't be any blow back from the U.S. if he launched a chemical attack? Plus there is Trump's record of admiration for Putin and Trump's stated desire to have a good relationship with Russia - I don't see why Assad wouldn't think he could get away with it. All indications were that Trump would be supportive of the Assad regime and its supporter, Russia.
As for Trump, it was a way to deflect from all the Russia connections and get good ratings (call me cynical).
I think pretty much anyone could have launched a chemical attack but I am not following the logic of Assad being too smart to do that. Smart people can do stupid things.
@botti and saturno - why couldn't Assad have figured that since Trump stated that he wasn't interested in regime change, there wouldn't be any blow back from the U.S. if he launched a chemical attack?
Regular attack yes, maybe.....chemical no way in hell there was not going to be a blow back (the 2013 accord was reached only by Assad accepting the destruction of his chemical weapon capability and with the Russian as guarantor).....they are not stupid....
Last edited by saturno_v; 04-11-2017 at 10:17 PM..
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