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Old 03-13-2008, 02:37 PM
 
311 posts, read 1,059,254 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by PMV View Post
Moving Forward....I am a Canadian who is disgusted by the seal slaughter and I know many others who feel the same way. The problem is that when you post this type of topic in a general forum, you get responses from people who really only care about themselves and what happens in their own little bubble world. I have posted about similar topics in other forums and the general responses are always appalling. These are the people that know little on the topic but proclaim to be experts. It always astounds me how far off topic people get and how many backs go up. The bottom line is that the majority of people do not respect animals and see them only as a means to make money. They could care less that billions of animals around the world suffer daily, as long as they can ignore it and pretend that the world is a beautiful place and mankind rules.

I am sickened by this annual hunt and, while one country should not be "painted with the same brush" for something that goes on in one area within that country, I can say that when it comes to this topic, I am ashamed to be Canadian. Just my two cents.
Oh really? Disgusted? Sickened? Unless you're vegetarian, it's pure hypocrisy to call the seal hunt inhumane. What about that poor, cute little cow who just got killed? What about all the other animals that are being slaughtered right now as I'm typing this?

The only reason the seal hunt is bashed upon is because all the "Save The Seals" organizations post pictures of white coat seals - which, might I add are not killed. The seal hunt is no different than any other hunt that's taking place anywhere in the world and while I don't personally participate in the hunt, I support it 100%. I know several people in rural Newfoundland and Labrador that are making just barely enough to survive and the seal hunt does help financially.

I recommend you take a look at this website to get the real facts on the seal hunt: The Seal Fishery.com - Canadian harp seal hunt - A pro perspective

 
Old 03-13-2008, 05:04 PM
 
323 posts, read 1,392,239 times
Reputation: 191
Ugh, the seal hunt just should not be in my opinion. I would love to be a vegetarian too but am not there yet. I have seen videos of the barbaric manner in which these lovely creatures are tortured. I cannot fathom how this can still be going on in this day and age and in such a rich country too. It has got to go.
 
Old 03-13-2008, 11:11 PM
 
2 posts, read 14,055 times
Reputation: 11
Robynator,

Thank you for taking the time to post an intelligent answer to the question "What do you Canadians think about the seal slaughter (hunt)?

Most of us who think as you do just don't bother to get involved in these kinds of conversations because no matter what you answer they will always repeat the propaganda information from radical groups versus wanting to know all about the full issue and thinking for themselves.

Personally I am saddened by the effect this issue has on the people of Newfoundland. All of my relatives are from Newfoundland so I understand profoundly how this issue just makes their lives even more difficult. Those who hunt seals eat the meat AND use the fur.

I dread the day when vegetarians have the right to tell the rest of us omnivores (- a person who eats all kinds of foods) that we can no longer eat meat.

I love animals but I am wholeheartedly more concerned about the issues and needs of people so that is what I spend my time and energy on. And, even though the issues and needs of people in third world countries are far greater than in Canada, I choose to help the less fortunate people of Canada. The people of Newfoundland are suffering by losing their families, homes and heritage...there is nothing I can do about it but speak up on issues such as this and hope that it may help at least with education of the general public and hope that they read more about the real difficult issues in that province.

Take care.

Last edited by HeartArt; 03-13-2008 at 11:31 PM..
 
Old 03-14-2008, 05:12 PM
 
Location: Over the Rainbow...
5,963 posts, read 12,458,996 times
Reputation: 3169
Default Same here...

Quote:
Originally Posted by Robynator View Post
Hmmmm...

As a Canadian, the protests got old a long time ago, and are somewhat fruitless exercises in the ways that they're often misguided, steeped in old rhetic, and assume a simple answer for something that's much more complex.

The protests, I've noticed, tend to paint all Canadians with the same brush, or assume this is a national issue, something relevant to all Canadians, but does not do a great job at really demonstrating how localized the issue truly is. I'm quite anti-hunting, but I've lost respect for people like Paul McCartney, or Morrissey, who clearly don't appreciate that many Canadians are also against the hunt.

After all, the seal hunt is an incredibly localized issue, and I don't think outsiders truly appreciate it. To give an American example, the seal hunt in Canada affects the entire Canadian population in the same way that the wolf hunts occurring in Wyoming are affecting the rest of the American population. Now imagine global USA protests and boycotts because "Americans kill wolves". But America's not killing wolves. A small percentage of a tiny population in one very rural state in the USA is killing wolves, and the rest of the USA is getting tainted for it.

And then imagine global media asking, "what does the average American think about the wolf hunts and why aren't they stopping it"? As an American, you either aren't aware of that issue, or you realize the issue is more complex than it may appear to outsiders.

I personally can appreciate the economic aspect of why the locals in Newfoundland feel the need to hunt seals to make ends meet... but I think that's because I also understand the history of Atlantic Canada in general. I feel that many outsiders don't. I personally see the seal hunt as a byproduct of the horrible mismanagement of the cod fisheries in Newfoundland - an economy that sustained its people for hundreds of years, up until only recently. So we have many layers to this issue hidden in the history and it can get quite touchy.

Another similarity would be like the world vs. the USA because, oh, I don't know... choose your regional issue. How about the Makah whale slaughter in Washington state?

Now does your average American even know about the slaughter of whales performed by the Makah tribe of Washington State's Olympic Peninsula. Imagine now being in the global spotlight due to such an issue. Welcome to the seal hunt in Canada.

Not every American is well informed on the whale hunts by the Makah in Washington, or the wolf hunts in Wyoming. Likewise in Canada with the seal hunt.

But we can talk about what we do know, right?

Newfoundland and Labrador is the most impoverished province in Canada. Despite its large size, its tiny population of barely over 500,000 has been decreasing since the 1990's. The province's prior infrastructure and economy relied upon fishing and those resources "dried up". When they weren't fishing, most would go on employment insurance. And now the fishing's gone... it's a sad situation. A lot of population is just moving across the country to Alberta where oil beckons. But some have gone to hunting seals and there are government sanctioned seal quotas. I think the bashing of seals is quite disturbing - it upsets me. Do they still do that though? Or is that just old propaganda we keep watching? I don't know. I do know that the furry white seals are not killed. Honestly, I'd be fine if all hunting was outlawed.

However, I also live closer to Mexico than I do to Newfoundland, if that puts it into perspective for you.

I also see the recent global outcry as a bit hypocritical and ironic and blown way out of proportion.

I see it blown out of proportion because the majority of Canadians are urban dwellers and don't hunt. Many Canadians condone seal hunting and are so far removed from Newfoundland that they may as well be another country. The Newfoundland seal hunt serves localized Newfoundland interests, not national Canadian interests, although Canadians are being painted by the same brush.

I see it as ironic and hypocritical because Americans and Europeans pay BIG money to trophy hunt in Canada for bears, moose, wolves, and whatever else they desire, and yet Americans and Europeans are the most outspoken on the issue of the seal hunt. But where are the Americans and Europeans crying out against their fellow country men entering Canada to kill moose and bears?

Do Americans and Europeans realize that they send hundreds of their country men to kill Canada's animals for fun every year? This is a serious question, because I can imagine your students do not know this, but would be equally appalled. Likewise, nothing's equally being done to stopAmerican hunters in Canada, and it amuses me that those against the seal hunt aren't even aware that droves of their own countrymen are hunting in Canada. To me it's even worse, because they're not even doing it for an economical reasons or economical desparation. They're doing it for fun. As a result, they're the reason why Canadian governments allow Americans to come hunting in Canada - it develops a localized economy in rural areas where populations exists but jobs do not! But that's an entire can of worms I will not open, don't worry!

But it would be interesting to use that as a comparison for your students.

But to get back to your initial question, I think in order to truly get anywhere in such a discussion, you have to deconstruct the issue.

Ask questions such as:

- What do we know about the seal hunt? How do we know this?
- What is merely propaganda? How do we know this?
- How did this happen? When did it start? Why did this start?
- What are the regulations and the season for the seal hunt?
- If it's merely economic, what are alternatives?
- How can we begin to discuss alternatives if we aren't familiar with the economic history of that province?

Etc, etc.

Only then can we start seeing patterns in cause and effect - why it's happening, why it has or doesn't have to happen, and potential ways of making it stop.


My 2 cents.
Here in Alaska there are some protests also when the Alaska Natives club and kill the seals. What do I think of it? I think it is a heartless, horrible thing that needs to stop!! Also, you mention American hunters there. Well here in Alaska we get plenty of hunters from Canada coming here as well as the lower 48; expensive it is, but quess they can afford it. Just wanted to make a point that hunters from "all" over cross borders to hunt down animals simply for trophy killing.
 
Old 03-14-2008, 05:15 PM
 
Location: Over the Rainbow...
5,963 posts, read 12,458,996 times
Reputation: 3169
Default Wrong....

Quote:
Originally Posted by mikeyyc View Post
Has nothing to do with being American. Zip zilch zero.

You are making a value judgement about something you don't know about. Do I agree with it? No. Do I really care what happens to 0.5% of a population of seals on arctic ice? No.

I stand by the fact that if they weren't cute, no one would care. Humanity as a whole has zero interest in preservation until it pulls at our heartstrings. I think there are FAR larger environmental and preservation challenges facing the global population than what happens to a small, solid, growing population of seals in the western Atlantic.

They aren't endangered, they aren't threatened.

No one here has said anything about you. You asked for a perspective from the group, and when it doesn't mesh with yours, you are taking it as an attack.

In case it isn't clear enough - The seal hunt doesn't really register in the Canadian consciousness. - at least among members of this board.
YES I would care if they were stone cold ugly! CRUELTY is cruelty in any form and this is a practice that needs to stop along with many others!
 
Old 03-20-2008, 03:41 AM
 
1 posts, read 2,906 times
Reputation: 10
Quote:
Originally Posted by Robynator View Post
Hmmmm...

The protests, I've noticed, tend to paint all Canadians with the same brush, or assume this is a national issue........ I'm quite anti-hunting, but I've lost respect for people like Paul McCartney, or Morrissey, who clearly don't appreciate that many Canadians are also against the hunt.

After all, the seal hunt is an incredibly localized issue,

How about the Makah whale slaughter in Washington state?

Now does your average American even know about the slaughter of whales performed by the Makah tribe of Washington State's Olympic Peninsula. Imagine now being in the global spotlight due to such an issue. Welcome to the seal hunt in Canada.

i think the idea of blaming the whole of canada for this very regionalised issue is to get the canadians 'from within' to put pressure on its own givernment to ban this annual event.

just how a small portion of british upper-class society used to do fox hunting, it took many many years of pressure and disruptions to hunts by pressure groups and activists to help get this sport into the media and public eye; and now it has been banned.

I'm guessing that if Mccartney and co put the focus on canada for doing this anual event, it will hopefully get canadians from within to want to change this image about their country. (after all, most of the canadians I have met seem somwhat proud of their country and happy to bare their flag on their travelling case or backpack!

its no use blaming a small local town that culls seals. coz that is just passing the buck. you , (as a canadian) dont kill seals yourself, but it does take canadians from within to help bring an end to these things by using your votes, mouths and weight.

if a crime goes down, and you are an onlooker and believe you have the potential to prevent this crime, then perhaps its a position of power and one might wanna use it for the good and try to prevent that crime.

so, please dont pass the buck and say its a small area in canada,, (otherwise nothing will ever get done)!!!

the paul mccartneys of this are doing the right thing; its a proven technique. they want to make canadians (like yourself) get on the anti-seal campaign.
 
Old 03-20-2008, 08:07 AM
 
Location: Victoria, BC.
33,579 posts, read 37,215,319 times
Reputation: 14042
Ah....The balance of nature, and how mankind destroys it. I wonder if stopping the hunt for shark fins would restore it somewhat. 73 million sharks are caught every year, their fins and tails cut off, then they are returned to the sea still alive, but not for long. All this for shark fin soup.

Understanding that sharks are one of the few predators the seals have, perhaps the balance might be at least partially restored. More seals would be killed, and certainly not in a humane way but in the way nature intended. Predation is what controlled the seal population over the eons and man is a poor substitute.
 
Old 03-20-2008, 11:36 PM
 
4,282 posts, read 15,763,745 times
Reputation: 4000
Quote:
i think the idea of blaming the whole of canada for this very regionalised issue is to get the canadians 'from within' to put pressure on its own givernment to ban this annual event.

just how a small portion of british upper-class society used to do fox hunting, it took many many years of pressure and disruptions to hunts by pressure groups and activists to help get this sport into the media and public eye; and now it has been banned.
The problem, of course, is that McCartney isn't a "canadian from within". Nor are most of the other "celebrities" who run around under the misconception their abilities to act or sing somehow qualifies them to direct the actions of the unwashed masses in the "proper" direction.

When Canadians see a British pop star well past his best before date and his wife lying on the ice next to the wrong type of seal for a quick photo op after hopping out their chartered helicopter, the reaction is just as likely to be unfavourable.

Perhaps the people in the best position to make judgements on matters like this are wildlife biologists who actually have training, expertise and hard data.
 
Old 03-21-2008, 05:23 PM
 
Location: The Woods
18,359 posts, read 26,547,146 times
Reputation: 11351
I'm not a Canadian, but here's my two cents of opinion. The same sort of issues come up with the state I own land in and am moving to (Alaska, in particular, wolves) and my answers in both cases are the same. I really like the natural world and want to see it protected and preserved. That said, people are part of the environment, not separate from it. We can not act as though we are separate and then get emotional about killing animals. It is illogical and far from objective in my opinion to do so. Humans are technically hunters and gatherers, omnivores. In fact, we are often times healthier if we eat a diet more like we did in earlier times, and are more active, as opposed to eating grains and refined sugars and such and living a sedentary lifestyle in cities. To condemn hunting in general is absurd. Animals eat other animals and kill each other in nasty ways. See how a wolf kills an animal (such as a young moose) and you'd never see humans' hunting methods as cruel. Just part of the natural order. Some animals eat others, and someday they may be eaten by a different animal. Hunting is perfectly fine as long as it is done sustainably. Humans were meant to hunt, just as other animals are meant to hunt. Sometimes we aren't even on the top of the food chain (polar bears, for example, while hunted by people hunt people themselves). Overhunting must not be done. Personally, I'd not hunt something for fashion reasons. I'll hunt for meat, and kill animals when necessary in defense of myself and property (which would include livestock and gardens and fruit trees) but I have no interest in "trophies." I'm fine with using fur for what humans have always used it for, warmth, as it's a renewable resource (if not over hunted of course) and far better in many cases than the (non-renewable) petroleum-based synthetics more common today. For reasons of fashion, just for looks, not using it for warmth in a cold climate, I'm not a big fan of that, but I wouldn't stop someone unless it's being over done and is not being hunted or trapped in a sustainable amount. If something is truly endangered, though, I'd not hunt it. I like wildlife and don't want anything being lost to extinction, especially given how everything has an important place in nature, but I think people are too quick to think they are radically different and not a part of nature. True the average city dweller does not live too close to nature and so does not need to hunt for the most part (I won't say always though, as I've known people to hunt for food when hard times have hit them and it stopped them from going hungry) but others do live much more closely tied to the natural world and the urban dwellers should not be dictating to others their emotions as law.
 
Old 03-22-2008, 02:36 PM
 
Location: Came-by-Chance
1,793 posts, read 1,456,254 times
Reputation: 579
Quote:
When Canadians see a British pop star well past his best before date and his wife lying on the ice next to the wrong type of seal for a quick photo op after hopping out their chartered helicopter, the reaction is just as likely to be unfavourable.
Not only lying next to the wrong type of seal but touching the whitecoat pup, if Heather Mills McCartney had any knowledge of seals at all she would have known that the pup would more likely than not be abandoned by it's mother because of the scent of human on it....talk about ignorance!
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