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Old 12-05-2017, 08:01 PM
 
Location: Boston, MA
3,422 posts, read 4,761,319 times
Reputation: 3933

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Quote:
Originally Posted by Milky Way Resident View Post
No, Canada is fully independent of the UK. The monarchy is only symbolic in this day and age.
You didn't understand my explanation then. I never said that Canada was part of the UK (it is not). It remains a constitutional monarchy however with Queen Elizabeth as head of state just like Australia. To my knowledge, Canada never had an official declaration of independence like its southern neighbor even though Great Britain recognized it as a distinct entity in 1931. With a symbolic monarch plus Governor General representative, Canada should not be considered 100% independent of the British Crown the way the U.S. is even though it retains its own decision making government. That symbolism that ties Canada to the British monarchy is important in traditional ways.
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Old 12-05-2017, 08:32 PM
 
Location: Gatineau, Québec
25,722 posts, read 33,906,820 times
Reputation: 10799
Quote:
Originally Posted by Urban Peasant View Post
You didn't understand my explanation then. I never said that Canada was part of the UK (it is not). It remains a constitutional monarchy however with Queen Elizabeth as head of state just like Australia. To my knowledge, Canada never had an official declaration of independence like its southern neighbor even though Great Britain recognized it as a distinct entity in 1931. With a symbolic monarch plus Governor General representative, Canada should not be considered 100% independent of the British Crown the way the U.S. is even though it retains its own decision making government. That symbolism that ties Canada to the British monarchy is important in traditional ways.
The fact that we have the Queen doesn't really make Canada non-independent of the UK. Canada *chooses* to have the Queen and in this capacity she is the Queen of Canada (not of England or the UK) and is also considered to be a Canadian citizen. She just happens to live in London and also be the Queen of a bunch of other countries.

Canada is free to keep or get rid of the Queen if it wants to, so it's not really like we have an absolute monarch that is all-powerful and impossible to dislodge like the King of Saudi Arabia or some other countries.

BTW I say that as someone who is not a monarchist and would not mind seeing this changed.
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Old 12-05-2017, 09:24 PM
 
Location: B.C., Canada
13,150 posts, read 11,675,265 times
Reputation: 29885
Quote:
Originally Posted by Urban Peasant View Post
You didn't understand my explanation then. I never said that Canada was part of the UK (it is not). It remains a constitutional monarchy however with Queen Elizabeth as head of state just like Australia. To my knowledge, Canada never had an official declaration of independence like its southern neighbor even though Great Britain recognized it as a distinct entity in 1931. With a symbolic monarch plus Governor General representative, Canada should not be considered 100% independent of the British Crown the way the U.S. is even though it retains its own decision making government. That symbolism that ties Canada to the British monarchy is important in traditional ways.

The Canadian Crown should be considered 100% independent of the British Crown.

Do you understand that the British Crown is not the same thing as the Canadian Crown? They're two different Crowns of two different realms. Just like the British Crown isn't the same as the Australian Crown, or New Zealand Crown, etc. Queen Elizabeth is the monarch of 16 realms, as such she (symbolically) wears 16 separate crowns, each one separately and independently of her monarchy of each of the other realms. Each of those 16 realms chose to have Queen Elizabeth as their own monarch but they each are their own Crown and except for the UK none of them are in any way dependent or influenced by the British Crown.

I agree with you that the various different symbolisms that tie each of those 16 realms to the British monarchy are important in traditional ways for each one of those realms.

.
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Old 12-06-2017, 07:02 AM
 
22,752 posts, read 13,829,459 times
Reputation: 16828
https://www.bac-lac.gc.ca/eng/discov...-act-1982.aspx


"Patriation" is the turning over or return of legislative powers that were formerly held by another country. When Canada took over the power to amend the Constitution from the British Parliament, this was an example of patriation.

The Constitution Act, 1982 was a landmark in Canadian history. It enshrined the Charter of Rights and Freedoms in the Constitution, the highest law of the land, and completed the unfinished business of Canadian independence — allowing Canadians to amend their own Constitution without requiring approval from Britain.

Last edited by BruSan; 12-06-2017 at 07:19 AM..
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Old 12-06-2017, 07:12 AM
 
14,398 posts, read 9,217,968 times
Reputation: 14104
Quote:
Originally Posted by saturno_v View Post
...all the people that you met and told you that probably can move if they want to but they won't...talk is cheap indeed....they will never give up their sunshine.....on top of that they know very little about life in Canada....I have no doubt that you met a lot of people talking like that in California, especially in some circles...

Finally, these people worried about "the state of the US" have not been affected by anything negative.......and enjoying the lowest unemployment in years and a record stock market...
Americans say the same thing about moving to Florida. They went there on vacation, like beaches and sunshine and want to move there to escape the cold. Aspirational? Sure. Realistic? Not likely for most.

Canada to most represents an ideal, or an anti-whatever-they-are-griping-about. The reality is that most wouldn’t be happy in Canada, for whatever reason, if their sole reasons for leaving were because they hated Trump.
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Old 12-06-2017, 07:26 AM
 
Location: Gatineau, Québec
25,722 posts, read 33,906,820 times
Reputation: 10799
Quote:
Originally Posted by BruSan View Post
https://www.bac-lac.gc.ca/eng/discov...-act-1982.aspx


"Patriation" is the turning over or return of legislative powers that were formerly held by another country. When Canada took over the power to amend the Constitution from the British Parliament, this was an example of patriation.

The Constitution Act, 1982 was a landmark in Canadian history. It enshrined the Charter of Rights and Freedoms in the Constitution, the highest law of the land, and completed the unfinished business of Canadian independence — allowing Canadians to amend their own Constitution without requiring approval from Britain.
And in fact, Canada was for all intents and purposes independent when it comes to making all of its own decisions about everything when the Statute of Westminster was passed in 1931. For example, Canada decided on its own to enter the Second World War eight years later.
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Old 12-06-2017, 07:46 AM
 
10,847 posts, read 13,453,579 times
Reputation: 7827
Quote:
Originally Posted by markjames68 View Post
Americans say the same thing about moving to Florida. They went there on vacation, like beaches and sunshine and want to move there to escape the cold. Aspirational? Sure. Realistic? Not likely for most.

Canada to most represents an ideal, or an anti-whatever-they-are-griping-about. The reality is that most wouldn’t be happy in Canada, for whatever reason, if their sole reasons for leaving were because they hated Trump.
Let's be honest, very FEW, if any at all, Americans will actually think of moving to canada because whatever political turmoil they think is happening. Despite the nice things Canada has and the US doesn't, there are more things they like about the US (such as more job opportunity, lower COL, more choices of climate etc) that canada doesn't. So although everytime Canadians get a confidence boost because the CIC website is crashed again, there is always minimum change in actual number of Americans moving to Canada.

And like mention, a lot of "bad politics" Americans whine about do not really affect them on a personal level whatsoever. will Americans actually leave the country just because it is harder for Mexicans or Muslims to come to the country? Yeah it is easy to post something noble and nice on social media, but very few will actually sacrifice their own life for the sake of all those good causes.

Now Trump is lowering the taxes, even less inventive for them to leave. People care far more about themselves than all the noble spiritual things they claim to care so much about.

And yes, even if they move to Canada, they will complain about new problems, possibly more than they do in the US.

So stop the wet dream. Americans in reality have little interest in moving to Canada (most don't qualify to begin with).
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Old 12-06-2017, 09:00 AM
 
22,752 posts, read 13,829,459 times
Reputation: 16828
Quote:
Originally Posted by botticelli View Post
Let's be honest, very FEW, if any at all, Americans will actually think of moving to canada because whatever political turmoil they think is happening. Despite the nice things Canada has and the US doesn't, there are more things they like about the US (such as more job opportunity, lower COL, more choices of climate etc) that canada doesn't. So although everytime Canadians get a confidence boost because the CIC website is crashed again, there is always minimum change in actual number of Americans moving to Canada.

And like mention, a lot of "bad politics" Americans whine about do not really affect them on a personal level whatsoever. will Americans actually leave the country just because it is harder for Mexicans or Muslims to come to the country? Yeah it is easy to post something noble and nice on social media, but very few will actually sacrifice their own life for the sake of all those good causes.

Now Trump is lowering the taxes, even less inventive for them to leave. People care far more about themselves than all the noble spiritual things they claim to care so much about.

And yes, even if they move to Canada, they will complain about new problems, possibly more than they do in the US.

So stop the wet dream. Americans in reality have little interest in moving to Canada (most don't qualify to begin with).
Botti; once again you're suggesting something that is not there. No Canadian is having wet dreams over Americans moving north. I think you'd actually find that to be a contradiction in desire.

I for one, disagree with the premise of Americans thinking well of Canada in greater numbers of those who might think less of it when they bother to think of Canada at all.

The reality is far different from the imagined in that you can hardly have your President stating Canada has been screwing the U.S. in it's trade deals and not have majority Americans taking that to heart. Americans have long ago become noted for their lack of independent thinking.
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Old 12-06-2017, 09:25 AM
 
Location: Gatineau, Québec
25,722 posts, read 33,906,820 times
Reputation: 10799
It's not false though to say that many, many Canadians revelled in the idea that the Citizenship and Immigration Canada website may have crashed on the nights that George W. Bush and Donald Trump were elected.


Anyone who has a social media account and was paying attention to them those nights and the weeks that followed could not be unaware of the gleeful posts by many Canadians.
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Old 12-06-2017, 10:47 AM
 
22,752 posts, read 13,829,459 times
Reputation: 16828
Quote:
Originally Posted by Acajack View Post
It's not false though to say that many, many Canadians revelled in the idea that the Citizenship and Immigration Canada website may have crashed on the nights that George W. Bush and Donald Trump were elected.


Anyone who has a social media account and was paying attention to them those nights and the weeks that followed could not be unaware of the gleeful posts by many Canadians.

Oh yeah; that's true! We are not immune from the satisfying contradictions of a good irony.
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