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Old 03-14-2019, 11:52 PM
 
Location: Central Washington
1,663 posts, read 875,254 times
Reputation: 2941

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Quote:
Originally Posted by Scrat335 View Post

China is working to better the world it seems to me.
Don't kid yourself. China is working to better China.

The Chinese are building infrastructure projects all over the third world, using mostly Chinese workers, and in some cases are taking the host country's natural resources as payment.

See here for the large, shoddily built hydroelectric dam in Ecuador. 80% of the country's exported oil now goes to China. https://www.nytimes.com/2018/12/24/w...china-dam.html

The same Chinese companies are building two dams in Uganda, and both apparently have
"unacceptable defects." https://www.independent.co.ug/the-tr...isimba-mess/3/

More on Chinese "debt-trap diplomacy" here. https://issafrica.org/iss-today/less...trap-diplomacy

And here. https://www.nytimes.com/2019/01/13/w...frica-usa.html

 
Old 03-15-2019, 04:56 PM
 
2,829 posts, read 3,171,812 times
Reputation: 2266
Quote:
Originally Posted by dozerbear View Post
Don't kid yourself. China is working to better China.

The Chinese are building infrastructure projects all over the third world, using mostly Chinese workers, and in some cases are taking the host country's natural resources as payment.

See here for the large, shoddily built hydroelectric dam in Ecuador. 80% of the country's exported oil now goes to China. https://www.nytimes.com/2018/12/24/w...china-dam.html

The same Chinese companies are building two dams in Uganda, and both apparently have
"unacceptable defects." https://www.independent.co.ug/the-tr...isimba-mess/3/

More on Chinese "debt-trap diplomacy" here. https://issafrica.org/iss-today/less...trap-diplomacy

And here. https://www.nytimes.com/2019/01/13/w...frica-usa.html
So true. Anyone believing otherwise is deluding themselves. The communist party in Beijing publicly states that they believe in zero-sum international diplomacy, and that China's core interests always come first. If that means screwing other third world countries with billions of dollars of unnecessary loans, or putting millions of Uighur citizens in labor camps, or starting a war with a democratic Taiwan, then so be it.

And when they say "China's core interests", it always means "Communist Party's Core Interests" (aka their interest to hold a monopoly on all power in China for eternity). The Party sees itself as leading a new imperial dynasty of rulers and subjects, not a 21st century modern society of constitutions, citizens, and rule of law.
 
Old 03-16-2019, 10:20 AM
 
Location: Sunnyvale, CA
6,288 posts, read 11,774,262 times
Reputation: 3369
Quote:
Originally Posted by bostonkid123 View Post
And when they say "China's core interests", it always means "Communist Party's Core Interests"
I disagree with this last statement. The last 10-15 years have shown clearly that the entire Chinese population (not just members of the government) have benefited immensely from all the changes that they've been putting into action. In effect several hundred million people who were previously living in poverty are no longer in poverty. The Communist Party is no longer doing things "only for themselves" - as was the case in the past - but they have evolved, become more flexible, and are consciously doing things that benefit their population. One of my coworkers/friends in the Shanghai office has said on several occasions that China is now "communist on paper, capitalist in practice."
 
Old 03-16-2019, 01:37 PM
 
Location: Earth
7,643 posts, read 6,472,603 times
Reputation: 5828
Quote:
Originally Posted by cdnirene View Post
I’m fine with China having less influence in Canada given China’s political bent. I read an article yesterday which I found rather disturbing.



https://www.wired.com/story/china-wi...et-us-no-plan/

canada needs to stand up to china.
 
Old 03-16-2019, 04:46 PM
BMI
 
Location: Ontario
7,454 posts, read 7,266,364 times
Reputation: 6126
Quote:
Originally Posted by cdnirene View Post
I’m fine with China having less influence in Canada given China’s political bent. I read an article yesterday which I found rather disturbing.



https://www.wired.com/story/china-wi...et-us-no-plan/
Agree. Very disturbing.....China = shrewd.....China = ruthless....
China also ....down the road ....potentially very dangerous too.

USA and the west....asleep at the switch.
 
Old 03-16-2019, 05:01 PM
 
5,428 posts, read 3,491,500 times
Reputation: 5031
Quote:
Originally Posted by 80skeys View Post
I disagree with this last statement. The last 10-15 years have shown clearly that the entire Chinese population (not just members of the government) have benefited immensely from all the changes that they've been putting into action. In effect several hundred million people who were previously living in poverty are no longer in poverty. The Communist Party is no longer doing things "only for themselves" - as was the case in the past - but they have evolved, become more flexible, and are consciously doing things that benefit their population. One of my coworkers/friends in the Shanghai office has said on several occasions that China is now "communist on paper, capitalist in practice."
That’s been the case since 1979, when Deng Xiaoping took over and started opening up the nation. Of course, its become more prominent now.

China has made tremendous strides over the past 2 decades, that cannot be ignored. As long as the CCP can maintain a healthy level of growth, it will be able to hold its grip on power.

The regime is problematic though as it’s a single party state. The CCP runs the show. Anything that it deems inappropriate is either outright censored or banned in the country.
 
Old 03-17-2019, 11:27 AM
 
Location: Sunnyvale, CA
6,288 posts, read 11,774,262 times
Reputation: 3369
Quote:
Originally Posted by BMI View Post
Agree. Very disturbing.....China = shrewd.....China = ruthless....
China also ....down the road ....potentially very dangerous too.
The sleeping giant (China) has awoken, as Napoleon predicted.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Milky Way Resident View Post
The regime is problematic though as it’s a single party state. The CCP runs the show. Anything that it deems inappropriate is either outright censored or banned in the country.
It's a dictatorship. Albeit a smart one. They realized that if China was to reach its potential, it would have to do things differently than the run-of-the-mill dictatorship. They devoted a lot of attention to studying the West and Europe, and identifying the things that historically made those countries prosperous and they went full-board with imitating and implementing those things in China. (I learned this from the book Destined for War: Can and America Escape Thucydides Trap).

They're not dumb. They are implementing a national parks program because upon studying the U.S. they identified that as one of the ingredients of a prosperous nation. Many other examples of this.
 
Old 03-17-2019, 03:28 PM
 
2,829 posts, read 3,171,812 times
Reputation: 2266
Quote:
Originally Posted by 80skeys View Post
The sleeping giant (China) has awoken, as Napoleon predicted.

It's a dictatorship. Albeit a smart one. They realized that if China was to reach its potential, it would have to do things differently than the run-of-the-mill dictatorship. They devoted a lot of attention to studying the West and Europe, and identifying the things that historically made those countries prosperous and they went full-board with imitating and implementing those things in China. (I learned this from the book Destined for War: Can and America Escape Thucydides Trap).

They're not dumb. They are implementing a national parks program because upon studying the U.S. they identified that as one of the ingredients of a prosperous nation. Many other examples of this.
No one is preventing from moving to China, if it is such a forward-looking beacon of 21st century human enlightenment. I'm sure you could easily find an easy gig for white people in Beijing or Shanghai teaching English or appearing on local Chinese commercials as the token white guy - you could make quite a good living out of that. You also don't need an exit visa to move out of the United States (same cannot be said for the billion+ Chinese people living in China).
 
Old 03-17-2019, 09:19 PM
 
Location: Canada
7,309 posts, read 9,314,019 times
Reputation: 9858
Quote:
Originally Posted by bostonkid123 View Post
No one is preventing from moving to China, if it is such a forward-looking beacon of 21st century human enlightenment. I'm sure you could easily find an easy gig for white people in Beijing or Shanghai teaching English or appearing on local Chinese commercials as the token white guy - you could make quite a good living out of that. You also don't need an exit visa to move out of the United States (same cannot be said for the billion+ Chinese people living in China).
I don't think he's disagreeing with you so much as having a pragmatic view of China's efforts to become more modern. Yes, I'm sure it's all true that the intent is to what coincides with the interests of the party but that doesn't change the fact that the standard of living has increased for many Chinese. "Successful" dictatorships take into consideration the condition of the people because even dictatorships can't stand against a popular uprising unless they are prepared to kill everyone and then over whom would they rule?
 
Old 03-18-2019, 10:09 AM
 
Location: Sunnyvale, CA
6,288 posts, read 11,774,262 times
Reputation: 3369
Quote:
Originally Posted by bostonkid123 View Post
No one is preventing from moving to China, if it is such a forward-looking beacon of 21st century human enlightenment. I'm sure you could easily find an easy gig for white people
I am Chicano (Hispanic)

Quote:
in Beijing or Shanghai teaching English
I've been to Shanghai several times for work. I wouldn't mind living there for a year. I couldn't see myself living there long term though - culturally very different than what I'm accustomed to.
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