Are American Democratic Presidents Red Tories? (fit in, loans, taxes)

[Suesbal]

To the extent that you can recall, have America’s Democratic presidents been no more liberal than Canada’s Red Tories?

[badlander]

Maybe the more progressive ones. Others fit in mainstream with the Conservatives when they were the PC

[CXT2000]

They are! People like Bill Clinton and Obama would be considered Progressive Conservatives (Biden as well even though he is further right). People like Ford or Legault would be considered democrats, with Legault ironically being around (more of less) Cuomo/Newsome, who are considered "far left" by U.S conservatives. Kenny and Western conservatives will be considered Republican but they'll be middle of the pack and not extreme right.

[porterjack]

Originally Posted by djesus007

They are! People like Bill Clinton and Obama would be considered Progressive Conservatives (Biden as well even though he is further right). People like Ford or Legault would be considered democrats, with Legault ironically being around (more of less) Cuomo/Newsome, who are considered "far left" by U.S conservatives. Kenny and Western conservatives will be considered Republican but they'll be middle of the pack and not extreme right.

I suppose the progressive democrats like AOC and Bernie Sanders would more than likely fit well with the federal NDP as moderate social democrats, not the extremist communist/Marxists that their critics stateside accuse them of being?

[rmm0484]

Originally Posted by porterjack

I suppose the progressive democrats like AOC and Bernie Sanders would more than likely fit well with the federal NDP as moderate social democrats, not the extremist communist/Marxists that their critics stateside accuse them of being?

Some Republicans have even called Joe Biden (a corporate centrist Democrat if there ever was one) a Communist. This is very strange, since Trump is a huge Putin fanboy who never took any action against the Russians. The Democrats are not very good about defending themselves against unfair labels, though...

[porterjack]

Originally Posted by rmm0484

Some Republicans have even called Joe Biden (a corporate centrist Democrat if there ever was one) a Communist. This is very strange, since Trump is a huge Putin fanboy who never took any action against the Russians. The Democrats are not very good about defending themselves against unfair labels, though...

i must admit I dont understand some right wing Americans definition of communism or even socialism for that matter

I remember the Obama bail out ( loans) to the auto sector causing a lot of people to completely lose their *****, because the state was intervening, albeit temporarily in the private sector

[CXT2000]

Originally Posted by porterjack

I suppose the progressive democrats like AOC and Bernie Sanders would more than likely fit well with the federal NDP as moderate social democrats, not the extremist communist/Marxists that their critics stateside accuse them of being?

Precisely this, although both consider themselves socialists, Bernie believes in welfare capitalism. He always says he's a "democratic socialist" and refers to the Scandinavian countries, which are social democratic (welfare capitalism with very strong safety nets). AOC is a weird one tho to be honest, she says she's a socialist, but recently said yes to the aid package bill which cut taxes for corporations and increased military funding, which are neoliberal ideologies. But then you look at her policies and her rhetoric and it's (to me) an extreme version of welfare capitalism that can *possibly* open the door to socialism.

They aren't Marxists though, since he believed in abolishing class structures, money and the elites, and both don't want to topple any of this, they just want strong redistribution, which again is part of the welfare state, which in practise is still capitalist since it's dependant on free market instruments. It only becomes socialist once the private sector is abolished and the government has a monopoly on things (along with other aspects).

In the NDP context, Bernie will probably be the middle of the pack, with AOC being slightly more left of Singh. The Greens are the most left wing party in Canada (they do play the whole "we're centrist card when campaigning) so she can even slide with the greens.

[Suesbal]

Originally Posted by badlander

Maybe the more progressive ones. Others fit in mainstream with the Conservatives when they were the PC

I thought a “Red Tory” was a bog-standard ProgCon.

[Acajack]

I find it's hard to make such comparisons because leaders don't inherit a blank slate when they take over the country.

Would Stephen Harper have implemented universal health care of his own volition if it didn't already exist?

[porterjack]

Originally Posted by Acajack

Would Stephen Harper have implemented universal health care of his own volition if it didn't already exist?

I think not