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Old 07-05-2021, 07:49 PM
 
Location: Kalamalka Lake, B.C.
3,563 posts, read 5,380,477 times
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We finally translated from French my grand fathers' memoirs. He was born in Francestown, New Hampshire and New England labor in the1800's attracted a lot of Quebecois. I worked extensively with him on the farm. Roads in the early 19th. century were largely impassable, so many rural kids attended "residential" schools, usually based on their religion. He gave up the Catholic religion to marry my Norwegian grandmother out of South Dakota. POWER in those days and up until real recently dovetailed into the police (RCMP or Surete), the politicians, and the CHURCH. His comment on his two years in res. school was brief: It was, without exception, the worst two years of his life".
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Old 07-05-2021, 08:48 PM
 
Location: Canada
7,309 posts, read 9,333,625 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by BruSan View Post
Years ago, I thought it would come to a crossroads when so many other religious or "special" schools were popping up all over the place. I sincerely thought that a serious case could be made for any one of them to challenge their tax dollars being siphoned to a "religious" school board.

We have many Mennonites in southwestern Ontario and with the addition of Dutch schools being funded through their own means it would not have surprised me one bit had they challenged a faith based tax funded school board being discriminatory in nature.

I'm still surprised that to this day it has not happened yet.
I'm not familiar enough with Ontario's school system but whatever happened to John Tory's 2007 attempt to provide funding to private schools other than Catholic schools? I found this article making mention of such a pledge but couldn't find what happened to it. https://www.thestar.com/news/2007/09...for_exile.html

In general, as long as Mennonites are allowed the freedom to educate their children in their own schools, they are unlikely to make an issue of their tax dollars supporting schools of other religious persuasions. The gentleman quoted in the article articulates the reason well, as being you don't get anything for free. The minute you accept government funding you open the door to the government sticking its nose in your business. That used to be the main Mennonite response but now it is more of a conservative Mennonite issue.

My husband was educated in a Mennonite private school here in Manitoba. A couple of my nieces are at a private Mennonite school here and others are in a Catholic private school, albeit without being Catholic. The choices their parents made were based not on religion, but rather the perceived quality of education.
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Old 07-06-2021, 01:55 AM
 
Location: Alberta, Canada
3,627 posts, read 3,416,108 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by cdnirene View Post
“Currently six of the thirteen provinces and territories still allow faith-based school boards to be supported with tax money: Alberta, Ontario, Quebec, Saskatchewan, Northwest Territories, and Yukon (to grade 9 only).”

Four provinces allow it. Six provinces don’t.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Cathol...ools_in_Canada
Just so everybody knows, publicly-funded Catholic and Protestant (today, known as public) schools are constitutionally-mandated, but only in Ontario and Quebec. From our constitution:

Quote:
93: In and for each Province the Legislature may exclusively make Laws in relation to Education, subject and according to the following Provisions....

93(2): All the Powers, Privileges, and Duties at the Union by Law conferred and imposed in Upper Canada [Ontario] on the Separate Schools and School Trustees of the Queen’s Roman Catholic Subjects shall be and the same are hereby extended to the Dissentient Schools of the Queen’s Protestant and Roman Catholic Subjects in Quebec....
Translated from the 19th century legalese, this means that Catholic schools in Ontario will be funded by Catholic taxpayers, and Protestant (public) schools in Quebec will be funded by Protestant (and any non-Catholic) taxpayers. The rest of s. 93 basically leaves it to current and future provinces as to whether they want separate but parallel Catholic and public education systems. Some did, some didn't, as history shows.

Remember, at the time of Confederation, Ontario was controlled by a Protestant ruling class; and while Quebec may have had English-speaking Protestants in positions of political and business power, the vast majority of French-speaking ordinary people were Catholic, and would have objected to sending their children to publicly-funded Protestant schools, while there were no Catholic schools (at least, none that came without extra cost above their forced Protestant school taxes). This provision was a compromise: Quebecers could attend taxpayer-funded Catholic schools in Quebec, and Ontarians could attend taxpayer-funded Protestant schools in Ontario; but more importantly, it allowed Catholics to attend publicly-funded Catholic schools in Ontario, and Protestants to attend publicly-funded public schools in Quebec.

In short, Ontario and Quebec have publicly-funded Catholic and public school systems because it is constitutionally-mandated, and rooted in our history. Other provinces may have the same, but that's because their people want it, and so, their legislatures allow it. But in Ontario and Quebec--two originally religiously-based school systems (the public system got rid of religion maybe fifty years ago) are constitutionally-mandated.
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Old 07-06-2021, 07:19 AM
 
22,923 posts, read 15,502,847 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by netwit View Post
I'm not familiar enough with Ontario's school system but whatever happened to John Tory's 2007 attempt to provide funding to private schools other than Catholic schools? I found this article making mention of such a pledge but couldn't find what happened to it. https://www.thestar.com/news/2007/09...for_exile.html

In general, as long as Mennonites are allowed the freedom to educate their children in their own schools, they are unlikely to make an issue of their tax dollars supporting schools of other religious persuasions. The gentleman quoted in the article articulates the reason well, as being you don't get anything for free. The minute you accept government funding you open the door to the government sticking its nose in your business. That used to be the main Mennonite response but now it is more of a conservative Mennonite issue.

My husband was educated in a Mennonite private school here in Manitoba. A couple of my nieces are at a private Mennonite school here and others are in a Catholic private school, albeit without being Catholic. The choices their parents made were based not on religion, but rather the perceived quality of education.
That supports the small bit of info I'm familiar with. Ontario at one time wanted to insert itself into Mennonite schooling to some extent I believe. I also remember that the Mennonite elders or whatever central council of Mennonites coming to the conclusion they wanted no part of government overseeing curriculum or standards and essentially told the gubmint to go pound sand. At the time there was something about Mennonite children not being required to continue schooling beyond the age of 14 as it was deemed they would learn all the scholastic knowledge they would need to thrive in their predominantly agrarian society with further apprenticeships serving to flesh out their particular chosen trade specialty.

I'm attempting to learn more from these particular articles:

https://tdaynard.com/2020/07/01/a-br...er-in-ontario/

http://www.edu.gov.on.ca/eng/general/elemsec/privsch/
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Old 07-06-2021, 07:57 AM
 
Location: Nashville, TN -
9,588 posts, read 5,847,652 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ChevySpoons View Post

In short, Ontario and Quebec have publicly-funded Catholic and public school systems because it is constitutionally-mandated, and rooted in our history. Other provinces may have the same, but that's because their people want it, and so, their legislatures allow it. But in Ontario and Quebec--two originally religiously-based school systems (the public system got rid of religion maybe fifty years ago) are constitutionally-mandated.
I believe you've explained this before. Thanks, Chevy.

But the constitutional mandate is unacceptable, and that it continues into the 21st century is stunning. That support of taxpayer funded religious (Catholic) schools continues to be strongly defended outside of Ontario, let alone inside Ontario (Ontario's a lost cause), is shocking.


https://www.cbc.ca/news/canada/calga...ools-1.4450106
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Old 07-07-2021, 01:18 AM
 
Location: Alberta, Canada
3,627 posts, read 3,416,108 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by newdixiegirl View Post
I believe you've explained this before. Thanks, Chevy.

But the constitutional mandate is unacceptable, and that it continues into the 21st century is stunning. That support of taxpayer funded religious (Catholic) schools continues to be strongly defended outside of Ontario, let alone inside Ontario (Ontario's a lost cause), is shocking.
I agree with you, NDG. The problem is that it will take a constitutional convention to change it. We haven't had much luck with those, as two so far (Meech Lake and Charlottetown) have failed, for reasons unrelated to religious schools.

Sadly, given those, which involved huge changes to our constitution, Canada and Canadians are now at the point where any constitutional convention, over whatever issue, is something to be regarded warily. Because of that, I doubt we'll see a constitutional convention over religious schools any time soon. "It don't seem to be broke, so why fix it?" seems to be the prevailing attitude.
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Old 07-07-2021, 08:26 AM
 
3,464 posts, read 2,796,509 times
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Those Catholic schools aren’t all that Catholic anymore. I doubt you could tell any difference between them and secular schools, except Catholic schools may have a crucifix here and there.
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Old 07-07-2021, 09:35 AM
 
Location: Nashville, TN -
9,588 posts, read 5,847,652 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Suesbal View Post
Those Catholic schools aren’t all that Catholic anymore. I doubt you could tell any difference between them and secular schools, except Catholic schools may have a crucifix here and there.
First, what you're saying is NOT the point.

Second, if you've never lived in Canada nor attended public/Catholic schools in Canada, how do you know this?
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Old 07-07-2021, 08:22 PM
 
Location: Nashville, TN -
9,588 posts, read 5,847,652 times
Reputation: 11116
A certain someone sent me a DM this morning calling me a "liberal *****."

Yes, a true, devout Christian/Catholic.
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Old 07-07-2021, 09:26 PM
 
Location: Canada
14,735 posts, read 15,057,756 times
Reputation: 34871
Quote:
Originally Posted by newdixiegirl View Post
A certain someone sent me a DM this morning calling me a "liberal *****."

Yes, a true, devout Christian/Catholic.
That's definitely against CD's terms of service. You should report that DM to the moderators.

.
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