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Old 07-02-2021, 05:56 PM
 
Location: Nashville, TN -
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Suesbal View Post
There’s been a demand for Pope Francis to visit Canada and apologize for the maltreatment of indigenous children in residential schools. While churches bore much responsibility for the problems, it seems the government is trying to deflect blame from itself since it gave the churches the responsibility of running those schools. Has anyone wondered what some of Canada’s beloved politicians of the past knew and when they knew it? Since the Catholic Church is in a weak position in Canada, what’s stopping the pols who are beating their breasts in shock and anger from bleeding the Church dry?
Is the Catholic Church being scapegoated? Well, if the Southern Baptist church were involved, or the Presbyterian church, or the Lutheran church, I wonder if would you ask the same question. Doubt it.
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Old 07-02-2021, 08:15 PM
 
Location: Canada
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Suesbal View Post
There’s been a demand for Pope Francis to visit Canada and apologize for the maltreatment of indigenous children in residential schools. While churches bore much responsibility for the problems, it seems the government is trying to deflect blame from itself since it gave the churches the responsibility of running those schools. Has anyone wondered what some of Canada’s beloved politicians of the past knew and when they knew it? Since the Catholic Church is in a weak position in Canada, what’s stopping the pols who are beating their breasts in shock and anger from bleeding the Church dry?
The Catholic Church as its own entity has a lot of sins to answer and atone for going back to 2,000 years ago but I really resent that some people are making audacious DEMANDS of the pope to apologize for something that he and today's Catholic church are not responsible for. If the church of today is being scapegoated now for something that happened in the past then it shouldn't be and I think the people who are doing the scapegoating aren't very intelligent.

I'm not Catholic but I think it would be nice if Pope Francis could visit Canada. I like him and if he was visiting some place close to me then I'd go to see him so I could soak up some of his presence. But I like the Dalai Lama too and would do the exact same thing if he came for a visit. But I would not want to hear Pope Francis apologize for the sins of Catholic predecessors from 400 years ago onwards. It was actually in the 1600's that the first Catholic residential schools started becoming established in Canada and that was 250 years before the Canadian government became a sponsor of residential schools.

The Catholic Church isn't going to get bled dry in Canada by politicians, especially since so many of them are Catholics themselves. If you think the Catholic Church in Canada is in a weak position you need to think again, since nearly half the Canadian population is Catholic and no single other major religion in the country comes close to it. A full quarter of Canada's population has no religious affiliation at all.

You mention our "beloved politicians" from the past but you need to understand that Canada isn't like your country - none of our politicians are or ever will be "beloved" - neither past, present or future. Being enamoured and mentally obsessed about politicians has never been a Canadian thing. They're just people we have elected to do jobs for us and for the Crown, they're not blindly revered as idols or gods or else demonized as the hated agents of the anti-christ, the way politicians are regarded in the states.

Since it was around 400 years ago (in the 1600's) when the Catholic residential schools got started in Canada I don't know and don't wonder what politicians of that time knew. They weren't involved with the schools at that time, it was just the Catholic Church that was involved. It was Canada's government in the 1800's who started sponsoring the residential schools and the government had the Catholic Church remain in charge of running the schools as the church had always done. The schools were still under-funded, they never did get much from Canada's government even after the government started sponsoring them.

Here is the plain language summary of the residential schools in Canada starting in the 1600's and onwards.

https://thecanadianencyclopedia.ca/e...nguage-summary

.
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Old 07-02-2021, 08:51 PM
 
Location: Elsewhere
87,949 posts, read 83,773,798 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Zoisite View Post
The Catholic Church as its own entity has a lot of sins to answer and atone for going back to 2,000 years ago but I really resent that some people are making audacious DEMANDS of the pope to apologize for something that he and today's Catholic church are not responsible for. If the church of today is being scapegoated now for something that happened in the past then it shouldn't be and I think the people who are doing the scapegoating aren't very intelligent.

I'm not Catholic but I think it would be nice if Pope Francis could visit Canada. I like him and if he was visiting some place close to me then I'd go to see him so I could soak up some of his presence. But I like the Dalai Lama too and would do the exact same thing if he came for a visit. But I would not want to hear Pope Francis apologize for the sins of Catholic predecessors from 400 years ago onwards. It was actually in the 1600's that the first Catholic residential schools started becoming established in Canada and that was 250 years before the Canadian government became a sponsor of residential schools.
Francis came to where I worked the last year before I retired. I took a photo of him from my office window, below. He gave a speech in the underground memorial museum, and it was on the NY1 channel on the screen in the conference room. My coworker who was most fascinated with him was a Pakistani Muslim woman. She said "he was a rock star", and she and a Hindu coworker sat in the conference room watching for his entire speech. He had Muslim, Jewish, Hindu and others up front with him to show unity. The Pakistani woman said, "We all have our own ways. We even have our own hats."

I am not Catholic, but I do like Francis.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Zoisite View Post
The Catholic Church isn't going to get bled dry in Canada by politicians, especially since so many of them are Catholics themselves. If you think the Catholic Church in Canada is in a weak position you need to think again, since nearly half the Canadian population is Catholic and no single other major religion in the country comes close to it. A full quarter of Canada's population has no religious affiliation at all.

You mention our "beloved politicians" from the past but you need to understand that Canada isn't like your country - none of our politicians are or ever will be "beloved" - neither past, present or future. Being enamoured and mentally obsessed about politicians has never been a Canadian thing. They're just people we have elected to do jobs for us and for the Crown, they're not blindly revered as idols or gods or else demonized as the hated agents of the anti-christ, the way politicians are regarded in the states.

Since it was around 400 years ago (in the 1600's) when the Catholic residential schools got started in Canada I don't know and don't wonder what politicians of that time knew. They weren't involved with the schools at that time, it was just the Catholic Church that was involved. It was Canada's government in the 1800's who started sponsoring the residential schools and the government had the Catholic Church remain in charge of running the schools as the church had always done. The schools were still under-funded, they never did get much from Canada's government even after the government started sponsoring them.

Here is the plain language summary of the residential schools in Canada starting in the 1600's and onwards.

https://thecanadianencyclopedia.ca/e...nguage-summary

.
I fervently wish my country was not like the bolded/underlined. Politicians should not be revered or seen as celebrities.

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Old 07-03-2021, 09:27 AM
 
Location: Nashville, TN -
9,588 posts, read 5,783,541 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Zoisite View Post

The Catholic Church isn't going to get bled dry in Canada by politicians, especially since so many of them are Catholics themselves. If you think the Catholic Church in Canada is in a weak position you need to think again, since nearly half the Canadian population is Catholic and no single other major religion in the country comes close to it. A full quarter of Canada's population has no religious affiliation at all.

You mention our "beloved politicians" from the past but you need to understand that Canada isn't like your country - none of our politicians are or ever will be "beloved" - neither past, present or future. Being enamoured and mentally obsessed about politicians has never been a Canadian thing. They're just people we have elected to do jobs for us and for the Crown, they're not blindly revered as idols or gods or else demonized as the hated agents of the anti-christ, the way politicians are regarded in the states.

https://thecanadianencyclopedia.ca/e...nguage-summary

.
I believe the OP is Canadian.

But I agree with questioning their statement about the Catholic Church being weak in Canada. LOL. Since when?

I'm in my 50s, and for as long as I can remember, Roman Catholicism had been the de facto state religion of Canada. It enjoys a very powerful, privileged position in Canada, socially, culturally, economically.
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Old 07-03-2021, 09:43 AM
 
Location: Canada
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Quote:
Originally Posted by newdixiegirl View Post

I believe the OP is Canadian.

But I agree with questioning their statement about the Catholic Church being weak in Canada. LOL. Since when?

I'm in my 50s, and for as long as I can remember, Roman Catholicism had been the de facto state religion of Canada.
Nope. Our OP is an extremely devout Catholic American who has lived in Mississippi all of his life.

He's just never visited Canada so he doesn't know what it's like here. But if he did visit (which I think he'll never do even though he's always interested to learn more about Canada - especially about Quebec which is the most Catholic province of them all) and was to take a road tour through any of the provinces he'd see that practically every town in the country, even the tiny "one-blink-to-drive-through" native villages, will have a functioning Catholic church in prominent view from the road.

And you're right, Roman Catholocism has always been Canada's de facto state religion, with the Anglican church coming a close second. But they're unobtrusive and polite about it.

.

Last edited by Zoisite; 07-03-2021 at 10:13 AM..
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Old 07-03-2021, 10:09 AM
 
Location: Canada
7,363 posts, read 8,296,347 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Zoisite View Post

And you're right, Roman Catholocism has always been the de facto state religion, with the Anglican church coming a close second. But they're unobtrusive and polite about it.

.
Really? I would have thought there were more United churches than Anglican. Maybe it varies from region to region.
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Old 07-03-2021, 10:17 AM
 
Location: Nashville, TN -
9,588 posts, read 5,783,541 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Zoisite View Post
Nope. The OP is a Catholic American who has lived in Mississippi all his life. He's just never visited Canada so he doesn't know what it's like here. But if he did visit (which I think he'll never do even though he's interested to learn about Canada - especially Quebec which is the most Catholic province of them all) and was to take a road tour through any of the provinces he'd see that practically every town in the country, even the tiny "one-blink-to-drive-through" native villages, will have a functioning Catholic church in prominent view from the road.

And you're right, Roman Catholocism has always been the de facto state religion, with the Anglican church coming a close second. But they're unobtrusive about it.

.

The Roman Catholic Church might be unobtrusive in British Columbia, idk, but it certainly isn't in Ontario. Catholic schools and separate Catholic school boards (which are huge) are paid for by the tax payer and for decades have enjoyed the greatest financial support -- by far. Southern Ontario is overwhelmingly Catholic, with a very Catholic worldview.

Apart from the fact that it's entirely unacceptable for any religious schools to be funded by public funds, it's even more shocking that this entitlement extends to only ONE (preeminent) religious faith (tell even the most fervent Catholic in the US about tax-payer funded Catholic schools in Canada, and watch the shocked expressions on their faces). Parents of any other religion have few options and zero financial support if they'd prefer to send their kids to religious schools.

And the real kicker? This disgraceful inequity is accepted as perfectly normal in Ontario and one or two other provinces. It's barely questioned. The average Ontarian doesn't even think about it . They think it's perfectly acceptable.

Roman Catholicism is unobtrusive in Canada? Hardly.

And, until the 1960s/70s, the Roman Catholic Church was anything BUT unobtrusive in Quebec.
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Old 07-03-2021, 11:18 AM
 
Location: Canada
14,633 posts, read 14,720,940 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by UrbanLuis View Post

Really? I would have thought there were more United churches than Anglican. Maybe it varies from region to region.
Quote:
Originally Posted by newdixiegirl View Post

The Roman Catholic Church might be unobtrusive in British Columbia, idk, but it certainly isn't in ........
You could both be right and with BC probably being the least religious and most secular province by comparison with them all I'm in no position to speak on behalf of other provinces .... so retract what you take exception to, I'm content to stand corrected on that score. In my defense of my ignorance, I'm not a religious person (I disapprove of all religions and all religious zealousness) and have never closely kept track of religious goings-on in Canada.

According to this 'pie' chart, 2nd is Protestant (whatever that means) and Anglican is way behind that: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Religion_in_Canada

*
*
*

For those interested, the following website has the text of some church's apologies in the 1990's:

https://www.facinghistory.org/stolen...ches-apologize

.

Last edited by Zoisite; 07-03-2021 at 11:29 AM..
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Old 07-03-2021, 11:41 AM
 
3,343 posts, read 2,636,261 times
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Trudeau speaks.
https://abcnews.go.com/International...anada-78638877
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Old 07-03-2021, 11:44 AM
 
Location: Canada
7,639 posts, read 5,409,489 times
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Article dated July 1, 2019:

“Our most recent survey in Canada, conducted in 2018, found that a slim majority of Canadian adults (55%) say they are Christian, including 29% who are Catholic and 18% who are Protestant. About three-in-ten Canadians say they are either atheist (8%), agnostic (5%) or “nothing in particular” (16%).”

https://www.pewresearch.org/fact-tan...ion-in-canada/
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