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Old 04-26-2022, 11:56 AM
 
Location: Montreal/Miami/Toronto
3,161 posts, read 2,569,294 times
Reputation: 2994

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Quote:
Originally Posted by Suesbal View Post
OK, does this mean that multilingual health care workers will be discouraged from applying to hospitals?
https://www.reuters.com/world/americ...ls-2022-04-22/
Yeah so Bill 96 has been a damn nightmare since proposed. There are a lot of negative implications from it if it passes, such as (but not limited to)

1. Violating freedom of choice for CEGEPS (unconstitutional, discriminatory, violates UN principles, which are recognized in Canada).
2. Will for sure mean getting healthcare services in another language will not happen. This will put a strain on immigrants, refugees, large communities here who do not speak French or struggle with it.
3. Will increase labour shortages, especially in education and healthcare**
4. Asking immigrants to learn French in three months and then they will no longer get services in their mother tongue is unrealistic and such a stupid thing to suggest.
5. Will increase failure rates in English CEGEPS due to the Liberals suggesting a bonehead amendment, asking three courses be in French only.
6. It has already impacted investments in Montreal and QC. I'm connected with people in investment QC, MTL International and the Chamber of Commerce. You look at 2021 numbers and counter this with 'record foreign investment" but forget it also includes delayed projects from 2020. This means fewer high paying jobs for Francophones, Anglos and Quebecers at large. Right now as of 2022, it has impacted us greatly and we have lost out on investments to Toronto or the United States.
7. Creates a snitching society, along with increasing red tape (like Quebec needs more red tape)

Bill 96 does nothing to improve the teaching of French, or address the issues of insanely high dropout rates in French schools. It also doesn't address that Francophones are also leaving QC in higher droves than usual since job opportunities are better elsewhere and QC society under the CAQ has been... well... unwelcoming and has racist undertones.

Bill 96 is also based on fear tactics. French is not declining in QC, where more than 94% of people speak French. The fear started with a Journal de Montreal journalist saying "I did not get greeted in French first in downtown Montreal, therefore French is dying in QC". Obviously, a downtown with 700+ international organizations, hundreds of thousands of students and tourists' will have more than French being spoken.

And let me be clear, I am sure even if the CAQ was not in power, we'd be having this discussion regardless. It has been part of the agenda in Quebec for decades, as they slowly squeeze the life out of other communities. This is not smart integration. Rather than promoting French and using positive reinforcement, Quebec is, as always, using it as a way to punish those who are not French, and are using it as a "learn French or leave" position, which is pathetic. There is nothing wrong with multiculturalism and nationalism is a danger to society. I'm glad people are waking up though and are finally willing to put up a fight.

I love Quebec, I love how unique it is and that it is the only French speaking jurisdiction on the continent. But the way the province always goes with linguistic issues is so outdated and boneheaded and no wonder people keep leaving. Adding more red tape, snitching, penalties and so on will not promote French and will make people resent it more, including Francophones.

 
Old 04-26-2022, 12:26 PM
 
143 posts, read 131,000 times
Reputation: 212
Quote:
Originally Posted by BruSan View Post
Thereby confirming the entire content of PDW's post.

Your 7 year old son ultimately got his care in his language of proficiency.

Your son was getting the required care regardless of language of service.

Your desire to have a 7 year old understand every aspect of his care direct from the provider was based upon your language of preference and not upon your son's provided quality of care.

Most of us grew up with our parents assuming the responsibility to provide total understanding of things like pending surgeries. I would have expected nothing less of them.

A resident from McGill must be able to communicate somehow while undergoing his studies. I find it impossible to believe he could not make himself adequately understood to you, with your subsequent translation being more than adequate to provide your son's complete understanding of his care.

Canada has a shortage of medial providers. We appreciate those who immigrate to fill those gaps. If we need to accept that care with some degree of inconvenience and tolerance, that's today's reality. Canadians across the country are having to undergo acceptance of this very change.
Sincere question: would it considered acceptable at a Warsaw hospital if patients “get the required care” and, if they really insist, maybe they can finally get to see a doctor who speaks some Polish?
 
Old 04-26-2022, 12:37 PM
 
Location: Gatineau, Québec
26,764 posts, read 37,665,557 times
Reputation: 11533
Quote:
Originally Posted by djesus007 View Post
Yeah so Bill 96 has been a damn nightmare since proposed. There are a lot of negative implications from it if it passes, such as (but not limited to)

1. Violating freedom of choice for CEGEPS (unconstitutional, discriminatory, violates UN principles, which are recognized in Canada).
.
So inflammatory. Everything is always Rwanda 1994, kristallnacht or Darfur whenever Anglo-Montrealers don't like something.

Unconstitutional? There is nothing in the Canadian Constitution that guarantees minority language post-secondary education. Look it up. Hint: that's why francophones in most of the "rest of Canada" don't have dick in terms of post-secondary options in their language.

Violates UN principles? See previous point. There isn't anything in UN principles that guarantees minorities the right to post-secondary entirely in their language on the state's dime. The vast majority of places in the world have no public education at all in minority languages.

I could answer the rest of your gripes, but based on this response, people can already see how that would go.
 
Old 04-26-2022, 12:40 PM
 
Location: Gatineau, Québec
26,764 posts, read 37,665,557 times
Reputation: 11533
Quote:
Originally Posted by djesus007 View Post
It also doesn't address that Francophones are also leaving QC in higher droves than usual since job opportunities are better elsewhere and QC society under the CAQ has been... well... unwelcoming and has racist undertones.

.
Can't resist this one.

There is no evidence whatsoever that francophones are leaving Quebec in any considerable numbers.
 
Old 04-26-2022, 12:42 PM
 
Location: Gatineau, Québec
26,764 posts, read 37,665,557 times
Reputation: 11533
Quote:
Originally Posted by pdw View Post
Would you be satisfied with a knowledge test for the French language itself as a component of the English exam? I may have misunderstood you, it sounded like you are advocating for the medical licensing test itself to be in French. I can imagine that would be impossible to pass if you went to an English university for Med school.
Why would it be impossible to pass a test in French if you went to a med school in Quebec (even in English)?

Why is there a med school in Quebec (funded with our tax dollars) that in 2022 is producing graduates that can't communicate with patients in French?
 
Old 04-26-2022, 12:47 PM
 
Location: Gatineau, Québec
26,764 posts, read 37,665,557 times
Reputation: 11533
Quote:
Originally Posted by pdw View Post
I guess I can say I’ve had the privilege of not knowing the scope of this issue as it hasn’t effected me personally. What I’ve heard about the law being proposed in articles I’ve read on CBC and such sounded a lot more like anger at English speaking staff at bilingual Quebec hospitals from using English at work, communicating with each other in English when in many peoples eyes French should be the language of the workplace. I also read that they want to prevent languages other than French being job requirements even at these bilingual hospitals. Couldn’t the affect of this law being having the victims of lack of services being flipped rather than actually solved? Do I think every elderly Anglo from NDG or Westmount should be able to be spoke to in English by every staff member? Definitely not but at a bilingual hospital they should be able to have someone around to communicate with them in English, which I’m aware is already the case. As long as the same is offered to the French speaking patients what’s the problem?
I've given you an example. Begratto has given you an example.

It's not just that francophones don't like having people speaking in English around them. It's that basic communication of personal health information is not always available in our language.

Here is another example in the news today:

https://www.journaldemontreal.com/20...n-english-only

Use Google Translate if you can't read French.

A couple of decades ago, I moved to Quebec from Ontario, which is a place where French speakers have fought tooth and nail to obtain scraps of health care and other services in their language. (I also had a close family member spend an end-of-life period in the Ontario system not that long ago. I am so glad that loved one spoke English, and even so there were still issues.)

But anyway, never in a million years would I have expected language issues (with English over French) in Quebec healthcare being as common as they have become.

So don't rack your brains for too long about why we have Bill 96.
 
Old 04-26-2022, 01:05 PM
 
22,923 posts, read 15,361,261 times
Reputation: 16962
Quote:
Originally Posted by lio45 View Post
Sincere question: would it considered acceptable at a Warsaw hospital if patients “get the required care” and, if they really insist, maybe they can finally get to see a doctor who speaks some Polish?
As surmised by me in my earlier post; we were discussing a resident Saudi student in a Montreal University Hospital who is somehow being taught by that university in at least one of two "official" languages that the poster I was responding to is fluent in.

If he is unable, even partially, to make himself understood, just how in the heck is he managing to learn his craft to the satisfaction of that Medical teaching facility? Are they providing a Saudi translator in every classroom or environment the resident is operating? Anybody care to offer an opinion?

Now to your question; yes in Warsaw it would be acceptable for patients to get the required care and be provided with a practitioner who could speak "some" Polish as I'm willing to bet this Saudi resident was able to speak "some" French to be able to perform his studies and duties as a resident doctor.

I'm also willing to bet the parent was not content with that situation existing to a degree his 7year old son could adequately understand.

Lastly; in a country with a shortage of medical practioners, we are all tasked with accepting medical care from foreign doctors who might have a very rudimentary grasp of EITHER of the two official languages. This issue is one not unique to Quebec.

Suck it up and deal with it instead of making a cause célèbre out of a long dead horse. The priority I would have thought would be the son's care, not the dang lingo the doctor is obviously able to function with, both while learning and performing to the satisfaction of his peers.

Last edited by BruSan; 04-26-2022 at 01:18 PM..
 
Old 04-26-2022, 01:15 PM
 
Location: Gatineau, Québec
26,764 posts, read 37,665,557 times
Reputation: 11533
Quote:
Originally Posted by BruSan View Post
As surmised by me in my earlier post; we were discussing a resident Saudi student in a Montreal University Hospital who is somehow being taught by that university in at least one of two "official" languages that the poster I was responding to is fluent in.

If he is unable, even partially, to make himself understood, just how in the heck is he managing to learn his craft to the satisfaction of that Medical teaching facility? Are they providing a Saudi translator in every classroom or environment the resident is operating? Anybody care to offer an opinion?
s.
One would assume that this Saudi doctor's native language is Arabic. They also probably know English reasonably well as they are studying at McGill where English is the language of instruction, even if it is in Montreal.
 
Old 04-26-2022, 01:19 PM
 
Location: Gatineau, Québec
26,764 posts, read 37,665,557 times
Reputation: 11533
Quote:
Originally Posted by BruSan View Post

Now to your question; yes in Warsaw it would be acceptable for patients to get the required care and be provided with a practitioner who could speak "some" Polish as I'm willing to bet this Saudi resident was able to speak "some" French to be able to perform his studies and duties as a resident doctor.

.
If only that were true. That does not appear to be the case if one goes by Begratto's story.

And as I reported, my kid who is 18 years old and a part-time candy striper at a hospital occasionally has to act as an interpreter between patients and nurses who speak only French, and doctors and residents trained in Quebec at McGill who speak only English.

It's not a "cosmetic" issue.
 
Old 04-26-2022, 01:21 PM
 
Location: Gatineau, Québec
26,764 posts, read 37,665,557 times
Reputation: 11533
Quote:
Originally Posted by BruSan View Post
Lastly; in a country with a shortage of medical practioners, we are all tasked with accepting medical care from foreign doctors who might have a very rudimentary grasp of EITHER of the two official languages. This issue is one not unique to Quebec.

Suck it up and deal with it instead of making a cause célèbre out of a long dead horse. The priority I would have thought would be the son's care, not the dang lingo the doctor is obviously able to function with, both while learning and performing to the satisfaction of his peers.
Easy for you to say when you know full well that there will never be a case when doctors and other medical staff won't be able to at least communicate on a basic level in English.
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