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Old 07-28-2022, 06:18 AM
 
Location: Toronto
13,330 posts, read 13,544,469 times
Reputation: 4269

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Quote:
Originally Posted by Acajack View Post
Some people call that whataboutism, I call it logical consistency.
It would be logical consistency as you call it if there are exact parallels between the two issues. It would appear there are not, but if framing it this way helps you reconcile various issues than I suppose all the power to you.

Last edited by fusion2; 07-28-2022 at 07:33 AM..
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Old 07-28-2022, 07:42 AM
 
Location: Gatineau, Québec
25,722 posts, read 33,889,011 times
Reputation: 10794
Quote:
Originally Posted by fusion2 View Post
It would be logical consistency as you call it if there are exact parallels between the two issues. It would appear there are not, but if framing it this way helps you reconcile various issues than I suppose all the power to you.
If we are to turn a whole bunch of tenets upside down, and in the process affect the identity of over half of humanity (largely without their consent), and obfuscate scientific tenets, then yeah I'd expect a bit of logical consistency in the overall approach.

I note that I've still never gotten an answer here nor anywhere as to why Lia Thomas can be a woman but Rachel Dolezal can't be black.

It seems to me that it's easier to fully acquire a culture (hundreds of millions of people have done so throughout history) than biological characteristics like pregnancy, lactation, ovulation, menstruation, etc.

I often think that if he were born a couple of decades later, Johnny Clegg would have been cancelled, accused of cultural appropriation and called racist.
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Old 07-28-2022, 12:49 PM
 
Location: Toronto
13,330 posts, read 13,544,469 times
Reputation: 4269
Quote:
Originally Posted by Acajack View Post
If we are to turn a whole bunch of tenets upside down, and in the process affect the identity of over half of humanity (largely without their consent), and obfuscate scientific tenets, then yeah I'd expect a bit of logical consistency in the overall approach.
Ok let's take a different approach. Let's say I am right and there is a valid gender identity issue with these individuals and they associate with the gender they were not born with, and there is valid scientific consensus, biologically, hormonally and psychologically driving this identity crisis. Would you change your view or would you simply say that they should suck it up and deal with it, even though experts in the field concur with their condition? I mean I think that would very cruel. I asked QIMC how they should be 'helped' and he didn't respond to it. Could it be possible that the very members of the medical community tasked with 'helping' them, would actually be prescribing the very thing you are opposed to?

Also you say that half of humanity is 'affected' - well don't forget trans isn't just m to f - its also f to m. Is the fact that there are passable looking males who were born females running around a threat to you? You may pass one everyday and not even know. F to M are quite convincing generally speaking.

I get your tenets but we have had countless tenets turned upside down with groups in the past, who have 'affected' other groups. That said, as we have opened our culture up and as we have advanced socially and medically we did indeed upset past tenets as a result. This condition they have is not an attack against women or men if this is biologically and hormonally driven, it is from what i've read a verified medical and psychological condition. Man it could have been one of us afflicted. I'm happy I wasn't born with this dissonance - it's quite traumatic I would imagine.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Acajack View Post
I note that I've still never gotten an answer here nor anywhere as to why Lia Thomas can be a woman but Rachel Dolezal can't be black.
I'll look up this more. I'm not familiar with this case so I don't want to respond until I know more about it and if it to me anyway, is corollary ie Lia Thomas and Rachel Dolezal.

Last edited by fusion2; 07-28-2022 at 01:36 PM..
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Old 07-28-2022, 06:01 PM
 
Location: Alberta
43 posts, read 19,893 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by netwit View Post
Is that for real or a spoof?
Its completely real! He (?) is quite famous now, and is a major influencer on Tik Tok.
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Old 07-28-2022, 06:04 PM
 
Location: Alberta
43 posts, read 19,893 times
Reputation: 68
Quote:
Originally Posted by Acajack View Post
I note that I've still never gotten an answer here nor anywhere as to why Lia Thomas can be a woman but Rachel Dolezal can't be black.
In fusion2's defence, neither can the professors of gender studies and woman's studies who promote these ideas as fact! I seriously need to get in on this industry. You get paid to make no logical sense!






Last edited by redfirehose; 07-28-2022 at 06:14 PM..
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Old 07-28-2022, 08:15 PM
 
Location: Toronto
13,330 posts, read 13,544,469 times
Reputation: 4269
A professor of Gender studies is not a Medical Doctor or a Biological Scientist. Therapists - well ok as long as what they are practicing is in line with Medical Science. If you read my posts you'll notice I made no mention of such academia as Professor of gender studies. I'm not dismissing what they do, but in isolation it isn't as relevant.

I'm more interested in the biological, genetic and hormonal influences. We already see environmental influences can get a bit wonky. Not just in trans world Korean girl, but also straight ie Barbie woman.

Calling a trans person an 'it' is pretty insulting to them. Just say they if you don't want to say he or she. Regardless where any of us sit on this topic, let's not forget our humanity here - or theirs.

Sorry but some of y'all come across as heartless here. I know this is a forum but try not to forget real people are reading these posts.

Last edited by fusion2; 07-28-2022 at 08:25 PM..
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Old 07-29-2022, 07:49 AM
 
Location: Gatineau, Québec
25,722 posts, read 33,889,011 times
Reputation: 10794
Quote:
Originally Posted by fusion2 View Post
A professor of Gender studies is not a Medical Doctor or a Biological Scientist. Therapists - well ok as long as what they are practicing is in line with Medical Science. If you read my posts you'll notice I made no mention of such academia as Professor of gender studies. I'm not dismissing what they do, but in isolation it isn't as relevant.

I'm more interested in the biological, genetic and hormonal influences. We already see environmental influences can get a bit wonky. Not just in trans world Korean girl, but also straight ie Barbie woman.

Calling a trans person an 'it' is pretty insulting to them. Just say they if you don't want to say he or she. Regardless where any of us sit on this topic, let's not forget our humanity here - or theirs.

Sorry but some of y'all come across as heartless here. I know this is a forum but try not to forget real people are reading these posts.
Has anyone on here referred to a trans person as an "it"? I certainly haven't.
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Old 07-29-2022, 07:53 AM
 
Location: Gatineau, Québec
25,722 posts, read 33,889,011 times
Reputation: 10794
Quote:
Originally Posted by fusion2 View Post

I get your tenets but we have had countless tenets turned upside down with groups in the past, who have 'affected' other groups. That said, as we have opened our culture up and as we have advanced socially and medically we did indeed upset past tenets as a result. This condition they have is not an attack against women or men if this is biologically and hormonally driven, it is from what i've read a verified medical and psychological condition. Man it could have been one of us afflicted. I'm happy I wasn't born with this dissonance - it's quite traumatic I would imagine.


.
I am just not sure that glorifying this specific "condition" they have is really the best way to help them. Especially not if it comes at the expense of diminishing and trafficking the identity of majority of the population - a huge chunk of which is already an often marginalized and vulnerable group (women).
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Old 07-29-2022, 10:58 AM
 
Location: B.C., Canada
13,126 posts, read 11,656,809 times
Reputation: 29808
Quote:
Originally Posted by fusion2 View Post
I thought i'd create this thread in response to some back and forth discussions in another thread.

It seems that Canadians in the forum here are concerned about aspects of the LGBTQ plus community, so feel free to voice those concerns. They can be anything. It seems as though recent activism is cited along with raunchy displays at Pride Parade's etc

What makes you uncomfortable and why? What do you support and why. Personal experiences are welcome.
I've been following this thread and still haven't made up my mind yet about whether or not I want to discuss what makes me uncomfortable about the LGBTQ+ community. I think I'll wait a bit and see how I feel about that later. But since you started this thread I guess this is as a good a time and place as any to ask a question that you may know the answer to.

My question is: are Drag Queens considered members of the LGBTQ+ community?

.
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Old 07-29-2022, 01:01 PM
 
Location: B.C., Canada
13,126 posts, read 11,656,809 times
Reputation: 29808
Quote:
Originally Posted by Acajack View Post
Has anyone on here referred to a trans person as an "it"? I certainly haven't.
I haven't seen "it" in this thread. I have seen such reference posted in some other threads in various other forums but not here in the Canada forum.

.
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