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Old 05-28-2008, 02:52 PM
 
2 posts, read 9,921 times
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Americans now pay much more on a per capita basis than Canada to care for its citizens. To say nothing of the fact that you are paying for most of everything for how many millions of illegal immigrants. An illegal can walk into any hospital in America and get something better than what Canadians get. Absolutely free medical care. It seems only American citizens have to pay. I have always paid for my medicare. Not too much a year but do it for 30 years and it adds up. I am a solid conservative but the one socialist Canadian program I agree with is medicare. Walk into any hospital in Canada and if you need care you will receive it. Of course we aren't flooded with millions of people(yet) who seem to need a lot of care. JMHO
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Old 05-28-2008, 04:59 PM
 
32 posts, read 71,779 times
Reputation: 30
Quote:
Originally Posted by Sonrise View Post
Which you're paying for. BTW, your second sentence is very telling in how we think differently. I don't for a second believe that health care is a basic human right. One needs food, water, clothing and shelter to survive, going by your supposition, those are basic human rights. Should the government provide those things?

For the record, no one thus far has really answered my questions directly.
There are no "Basic Human Rights" they are all made up by Humans themselves, you aren't born with "Rights" that being said, if you needed Food, Water, Clothing, shelter or Health Care, and couldn't afford it. wouldn't you appreciate some help?

The majority of people aren't lazy potheads sitting on their couch eating chips. How could you sustain yourself with that lifestyle? The majority of people are hardworking people just trying to survive. If they need some help and I have to pay taxes to help them (while in the process helping myself) I am all for that.

I have no problem with taxes, as long as they are going towards helping the people not lining someones pockets.
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Old 06-02-2008, 02:41 PM
 
Location: Western Canada
39 posts, read 281,492 times
Reputation: 45
Tough question. I've lived and worked in healthcare in both the US and Cda. No doubt the medical care is faster and in some situations, better in the US. Does it **** me off that lots of people in Canada not only don't pay taxes, but live off my taxes and get very expensive healthcare on my back? Absolutely. BUT, knowing that if I ever need healthcare, regardless of whether I've lost my job, am a senior on a fixed income, or living on the streets, more than makes up for it. I love never having to worry about health insurance and coverage - it never crosses my mind here, whereas when I lived in the US, it made the list of monthly worries. Now we just need to work on making this system more efficient and less prone to abuse.
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Old 06-02-2008, 03:09 PM
 
4,657 posts, read 8,395,248 times
Reputation: 1361
Quote:
Originally Posted by snappy View Post
And I don't see how the American way works any better for your question. You have 3 hard working Americans paying into their company health care plan and using its benefits. You have one lazy unemployed American living on welfare making use of medicaid or whatever you call it. The three hard working ones are paying for the medicaid guy through their taxes same as here.
I wanted to give this some thought before I responded. First off, with medicaid, I believe that you do have to have some type of income in order to qualify. Also with welfare, here in the states it varies from state to state as opposed to socialized healthcare in Canada which is federal. When Clinton was president he enacted welfare reform which basically ended career welfare recipients and most states now mandate that you get some form of career training in exchange for welfare benefits, which is what I was talking about in my initial post. Plus not even a 1/4 of all Americans are on welfare yet all Canadians receive socialized healthcare whether they're a contributing member of society or just sponging off of the system that you're paying for. So there are major differences between our welfare, which comes with conditions and expectations and is used by a very small % of citizens and your's which demands and expects nothing of it's recipients.
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Old 06-03-2008, 01:23 AM
 
5 posts, read 31,831 times
Reputation: 19
Default Health Care Comparisons

I don't know where to begin with this - I'm sorry to say, but I actually have little patience left for reductionist and misguided arguments such as are found at the beginning of this thread. I'll just offer two links to online articles, then. Between the two of them it is explained that Canada pays less per capita than the US for health care - be it public or private (economies of scale! less profit motive!) - and that health outcomes and indicators tend to be better in Canada than in the US (universal coverage!).

U.S. still top spender on health care - Stocks & economy - MSNBC.com

Health outcomes often better in Canada than U.S.: review

The Canadian system is not perfect, but I don't understand how people can continue to insist that the American way (i.e. paying more for worse outcomes and greater inequality) is somehow better. Actually, I do understand. It serves the interests of those who are advantaged by the current system.
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Old 06-03-2008, 02:56 AM
 
5 posts, read 31,831 times
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Default Follow-up

Sorry, perhaps I forgot to respond to the original question. Does it make me mad that there might be a "non-contributor" out there needing medical care? No. And not all unemployed/poor people are lazy substance abusers.

Check out the Forbes lists for executive pay. Does it make you mad that there are CEOs of private insurance corporations leeching millions and tens of millions off the private insurance schemes that you pay for? It should.
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Old 06-03-2008, 10:23 AM
 
4,657 posts, read 8,395,248 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by jlpatzer View Post
Sorry, perhaps I forgot to respond to the original question. Does it make me mad that there might be a "non-contributor" out there needing medical care? No. And not all unemployed/poor people are lazy substance abusers.

Check out the Forbes lists for executive pay. Does it make you mad that there are CEOs of private insurance corporations leeching millions and tens of millions off the private insurance schemes that you pay for? It should.
In response to the bolded; 1.) Why not, my question was specific to people who choose not to contribute and sponge off of you 2) I never said that they were.

As far as something to gain, I've never made more then $50k in a year. I have a fundamental problem with paying for someone who isn't willing to pull their own weight. There are no reprecussions, i.e incentives for people in socialized healthcare to better themselves. Why would they when they can suck off the teet of big government at your expense? The obese, alcoholics and drug abusers get the exact same coverage as someone who chooses a healthy lifestyle despite their choices leading to much greater costs health wise. I love Canada, used to live in Guelph, Ont. but here we have a choice to have health insurance or not. That's all. Most of you guys love your system, that's cool. Just wanted to make some people think, that' all.
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Old 06-05-2008, 02:00 PM
 
1,227 posts, read 1,970,241 times
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Hmmm...just think that those who are unemployed/on welfare really do not receive that much money each month. Your life is probably much better than those unfortunate ones. Be grateful for what you have.
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Old 06-05-2008, 04:44 PM
 
6 posts, read 31,284 times
Reputation: 15
Quote:
Originally Posted by toejamfootball View Post
There are no "Basic Human Rights" they are all made up by Humans themselves, you aren't born with "Rights" that being said, if you needed Food, Water, Clothing, shelter or Health Care, and couldn't afford it. wouldn't you appreciate some help?

The majority of people aren't lazy potheads sitting on their couch eating chips. How could you sustain yourself with that lifestyle? The majority of people are hardworking people just trying to survive. If they need some help and I have to pay taxes to help them (while in the process helping myself) I am all for that.

I have no problem with taxes, as long as they are going towards helping the people not lining someones pockets.
I am from the US (disclaimer), but I could not have said it better, myself. I don't understand the mind-set that those who may need help are lazy and abusing those who are providing the assistance. I think that most people who complain about paying taxes to help others have never needed assistance. My parents worked 3 jobs between them when I was a kid, and we still needed foodstamps and welfare, sometimes. Now that I am a contributing member of society, I am more than happy to pay my taxes (and will be happy to pay even higher taxes when I move to Canada in September) so that other scared, hungry, cold kids like I was can get the help their families so desperately need. That might sound like emotional blackmail, but that's the reality of the situation. People talk about social programs like it's all numbers and dollar signs. It's really more complicated and harsh than that to those who have to live it. I don't see why someone would have to actually experience those conditions in order to understand that people live in that terrifying poverty every day, and I cannot see how anyone could not feel compassion and want to help. I guess we're all different, though, hmm?
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Old 01-06-2010, 10:11 AM
 
6 posts, read 17,435 times
Reputation: 13
You can have the best health care in the world but when it's your time to go, money and health care is the last thing on a dieing persons mind. i wonder how many people in Canada speaking so proudly of their little health care for 40 million would think of it when 400 million is on the plan? Canadians can't even manage 40 million on health care so why is this pride coming into factor for? I see people waiting in emergency rooms in Calgary for over 6 to 10 hours. people being sent home from surgery with open wounds and not fully recovered. I have also witnessed a woman being told to wait outside because she was crying in pain and it bothered the staff so much. It made me sick so I quit my job at the hospital because it seemed more of an inconvenient for the staff to care for people than it did to proudly do it. At lunch all I heard was staff complaining about people being sick and making fun of them because of either their deformaties or their sickness.
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