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Old 01-08-2010, 01:53 PM
 
17 posts, read 77,807 times
Reputation: 28

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Even if you are hard working , or a "hero" in the U.S., it's no garuantee you will get health care, look at those poor rescue personel from 911 , that went to the trade centre to help, they are being given a run around and denied help for the side affects they have developed, sorry but that's shamefull....your going to tell me that's not a sick system they operate down there??
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Old 01-08-2010, 03:16 PM
 
Location: Perth, Western Australia
9,589 posts, read 27,803,401 times
Reputation: 3647
Default All of that is like asking this:

Quote:
Originally Posted by Sonrise View Post
This was buried in the "sicko" thread, so I made it it's own.

In socialized healthcare everyone pays for everyone else, even if everyone isn't contributing, correct? For example 3 Canadians are very hard working upstanding citizens who contribute to the system through their taxes. A fourth Canadian sits on the couch, watches tv, eats chips and smokes dope all day. He contributes nothing to the system since he doesn't work. Yet in your system he is covered as much as the 3 hard working, upstanding Canadians. 3 are paying for 4. Well, since the most basic law of economics says that in order to be solvent one must make more then they spend, this example doesn't work. So the government must raise taxes somewhere in order to offset the delinquents who leech off of the system and don't add anything to it. When does it end? how does it end? Does it make you guys mad?

Another question:

Do you guys think it is fair that a Canadian who drinks in moderation, doesn't smoke, take drugs and exercises regularly should pay for people who engage in destructive behavior, i.e drug abuse, alcoholism, morbidly obese? In other words, there's no penalty/reprecussions for people who engage in self destructive behavior in regards to their healthcare, correct? Thanks
If the average airline passenger weighs 150 lbs,
shouldn't the lighter passengers be "entitled" to a baggage-weight-allowance, free of charge?


- Every passenger has to step on a scale at baggage check

- Say a passenger weighs 130 lbs; they get a 20 lb complimentary "baggage-credit"

- Adults weighing over 200 lbs should forfeit their normal baggage allowance, have all baggage declared "extra weight" and pay accordingly

- Adults weighing 300 lbs MUST pay for 2 seats, even if they are able to sit in a normal sized seat.

*Even though this makes sense for calculating theoretical fuel costs, it would be BAD for public relations.
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Old 01-08-2010, 03:28 PM
 
12 posts, read 64,110 times
Reputation: 17
Quote:
Originally Posted by ColdCanadian View Post
If the average airline passenger weighs 150 lbs,
shouldn't the lighter passengers be "entitled" to a baggage-weight-allowance, free of charge?

- Every passenger has to step on a scale at baggage check

- Say a passenger weighs 130 lbs; they get a 20 lb complimentary "baggage-credit"

- Adults weighing over 200 lbs should forfeit their normal baggage allowance, have all baggage declared "extra weight" and pay accordingly

- Adults weighing 300 lbs MUST pay for 2 seats, even if they are able to sit in a normal sized seat.

*Even though this makes sense for calculating theoretical fuel costs, it would be BAD for public relations.
Good point. Canada has 'Universal' healthcare. That means EVERYONE is covered regardless of lifestyle or circumstance.
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Old 01-09-2010, 10:45 AM
 
Location: Canada
7,309 posts, read 9,321,218 times
Reputation: 9858
Quote:
Originally Posted by Sonrise View Post
This was buried in the "sicko" thread, so I made it it's own.

In socialized healthcare everyone pays for everyone else, even if everyone isn't contributing, correct? For example 3 Canadians are very hard working upstanding citizens who contribute to the system through their taxes. A fourth Canadian sits on the couch, watches tv, eats chips and smokes dope all day. He contributes nothing to the system since he doesn't work. Yet in your system he is covered as much as the 3 hard working, upstanding Canadians. 3 are paying for 4. Well, since the most basic law of economics says that in order to be solvent one must make more then they spend, this example doesn't work. So the government must raise taxes somewhere in order to offset the delinquents who leech off of the system and don't add anything to it. When does it end? how does it end? Does it make you guys mad?

Another question:

Do you guys think it is fair that a Canadian who drinks in moderation, doesn't smoke, take drugs and exercises regularly should pay for people who engage in destructive behavior, i.e drug abuse, alcoholism, morbidly obese? In other words, there's no penalty/reprecussions for people who engage in self destructive behavior in regards to their healthcare, correct? Thanks
Nope, I don't mind paying one bit for those who don't contribute. Yes, I think it is fair that a Canadian who takes care of him or herself health-wise pays for and gets no better or worse service than a Canadian who does not because the playing field of life is not fair for those people from the beginning, and that takes the whole question of "fairness" to another level.

And, as a nod to your user name, I believe I am my brother's keeper, so that ties in nicely with my faith.

And then there's the idea that "There but for the grace of God go I," which expresses the very realistic idea that although today I am a contributing citizen, tomorrow the proverbial crap might hit the fan in some way I have no way of anticipating, and I too will benefit from the compassion of fellow citizens for whom the crap has not hit the fan.

Last edited by netwit; 01-09-2010 at 10:47 AM.. Reason: typo
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Old 01-09-2010, 11:09 AM
 
Location: Boston, MA & Istanbul, Turkey
793 posts, read 1,452,923 times
Reputation: 391
I love it when people who have absolutely no qualifications comment on the Healthcare situation in the United States. There are so many "mistruths" in this thread it isn't even funny. All you "experts" are clueless, plain and simple.

Now I am not saying that the US system is not broken in certain states (Massachusetts is a great example of good progress on the reform side-and yes Healthcare is handled on the state level, not federal for you "experts" that group the whole country together) but I would never want the US to design their healthcare reform after Canada at all. The same WHO rankings that misinformed Canadians like to shove down peoples throats ranks Canada as the 30th best in the world which is shameful, especially considering Universal models are favored as one criteria in the rankings.

Finally I have also heard people say that the new Healthcare reform in Congress is watered down in the US. How can you make that statement when the bill is still in reconciliation? There is not even a final bill created and voted on yet. If you want to offer an opinion on the Senate or House bills only do so if you have read each one and all amendments is its entirety, and yes I personally have because I am a CPA for a Healthcare system in Boston, I do this for a living. Just had to get that off my chest
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Old 01-09-2010, 01:52 PM
 
17 posts, read 77,807 times
Reputation: 28
so of course your opinion is totally unbiased ....considering your employer is a blood leach, and you get a paycheque at the end of the day if the status quo stays the same
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Old 01-09-2010, 06:25 PM
 
4,282 posts, read 15,747,524 times
Reputation: 4000
Quote:
Originally Posted by Cart24 View Post
I love it when people who have absolutely no qualifications comment on the Healthcare situation in the United States. There are so many "mistruths" in this thread it isn't even funny. All you "experts" are clueless, plain and simple.

Now I am not saying that the US system is not broken in certain states (Massachusetts is a great example of good progress on the reform side-and yes Healthcare is handled on the state level, not federal for you "experts" that group the whole country together) but I would never want the US to design their healthcare reform after Canada at all. The same WHO rankings that misinformed Canadians like to shove down peoples throats ranks Canada as the 30th best in the world which is shameful, especially considering Universal models are favored as one criteria in the rankings.

Finally I have also heard people say that the new Healthcare reform in Congress is watered down in the US. How can you make that statement when the bill is still in reconciliation? There is not even a final bill created and voted on yet. If you want to offer an opinion on the Senate or House bills only do so if you have read each one and all amendments is its entirety, and yes I personally have because I am a CPA for a Healthcare system in Boston, I do this for a living. Just had to get that off my chest

In the same vein, your experience and expertise with the Canadian system is what?
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Old 01-09-2010, 08:16 PM
 
Location: Boston, MA & Istanbul, Turkey
793 posts, read 1,452,923 times
Reputation: 391
Quote:
Originally Posted by Cornerguy1 View Post
In the same vein, your experience and expertise with the Canadian system is what?
First of all, where do you see me offering an opinion of the Canadian Healthcare system in the first place, last I checked it was mostly Canadians in this thread making wild misstatements about a system they have no experience with.

Secondly, I am a Canadian citizen and lived in Toronto for 18 years off and on, so I have been on the patient side of Canadian Healthcare during that time.

Finally, I am a Healthcare accountant for a company that has joint ventures in 18 different countries in addition to the United States, including 2 Clinics (Toronto, Vancouver) and 1 Research Facility outside of Toronto. Do I work on all of these projects? Of course not! but do you not think it is expected of me to verse myself in different delivery systems internationally?
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Old 01-09-2010, 08:23 PM
 
Location: Boston, MA & Istanbul, Turkey
793 posts, read 1,452,923 times
Reputation: 391
Quote:
Originally Posted by britishcolumbian View Post
so of course your opinion is totally unbiased ....considering your employer is a blood leach, and you get a paycheque at the end of the day if the status quo stays the same
And this should mean something to me because a) you know who my employer is b) whether they are a non or for profit outfit c) if my employer is either for or against healthcare reform.

Well the only part of the above that you could honestly figure out on your own if you had an ounce of common sense is C, seeing that I work for a company based in Boston, which is the capital of Massachusetts, which is the first state to pass a Universal Healthcare law, which has been very successful (98% insured population) and which is at the forefront of pay per patient reimbursement as opposed to pay per patient. So if you looked a little deeper you could probably assume that my company is pro-reform since we have been operating under that system since 2006.

I could go on, but dude lets just admit you do not have a clue. Have a nice day.
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Old 01-09-2010, 11:02 PM
 
4,282 posts, read 15,747,524 times
Reputation: 4000
Quote:
Originally Posted by Cart24 View Post
First of all, where do you see me offering an opinion of the Canadian Healthcare system in the first place....


Hmmmmm ...... perhaps right here?

Quote:
Cart24:
I would never want the US to design their healthcare reform after Canada at all. The same WHO rankings that misinformed Canadians like to shove down peoples throats ranks Canada as the 30th best in the world which is shameful, especially considering Universal models are favored as one criteria in the rankings.

If you're going to establish the standard that only the "informed" may present critiques or opinions, then you shouldn't be getting upset when you're asked to adhere to your own standard when you make judgments.
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