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Old 01-10-2010, 01:01 AM
 
Location: Boston, MA & Istanbul, Turkey
793 posts, read 1,456,582 times
Reputation: 391

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Quote:
Originally Posted by Cornerguy1 View Post
Hmmmmm ...... perhaps right here?




If you're going to establish the standard that only the "informed" may present critiques or opinions, then you shouldn't be getting upset when you're asked to adhere to your own standard when you make judgments.
The only personal opinion I see in there is me stating that I would not like the US to model its system after Canada, so yes there is the opinion. The WHO comment is fact, not my words or statistics.

With that being said I established why I can make those statements unlike many others on this forum.
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Old 01-10-2010, 01:48 AM
 
4,282 posts, read 15,767,105 times
Reputation: 4000
Great, Cart24, you've told us you're an expert in the field.

Perhaps now you'd care to share your thoughts on the actual original topic of the thread rather than steering things off topic.

Thanks.

Last edited by Cornerguy1; 01-10-2010 at 02:06 AM..
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Old 01-10-2010, 09:42 AM
 
Location: Boston, MA & Istanbul, Turkey
793 posts, read 1,456,582 times
Reputation: 391
Quote:
Originally Posted by Cornerguy1 View Post
Great, Cart24, you've told us you're an expert in the field.

Perhaps now you'd care to share your thoughts on the actual original topic of the thread rather than steering things off topic.

Thanks.
Hey, Hey, Hey! I know you are speaking facetiously, but I would like to clarify that I did not call myself an expert per se (I would expect to have something published on the matter before I go throwing that around) but rather someone who is versed in the topic, alot more than most on this board I assume.

All I ask is that when speaking about the Healthcare system in the US at the very least acknowledge that there is a serious attempt at Reform going on in Washington at the moment or give credit to states like Massachusetts, Vermont, Maine, California, Hawaii and Connecticut who have passed Universal Health Care bills with a variance in success.

To ignore these achievements and speak about the lack of UHC in the US is unfair and does not allow for a full, fair and balanced discussion on the topic.
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Old 01-18-2015, 07:57 PM
 
Location: Toronto
9 posts, read 12,203 times
Reputation: 10
Quote:
Originally Posted by Sonrise View Post
This was buried in the "sicko" thread, so I made it it's own.

In socialized healthcare everyone pays for everyone else, even if everyone isn't contributing, correct? For example 3 Canadians are very hard working upstanding citizens who contribute to the system through their taxes. A fourth Canadian sits on the couch, watches tv, eats chips and smokes dope all day. He contributes nothing to the system since he doesn't work. Yet in your system he is covered as much as the 3 hard working, upstanding Canadians. 3 are paying for 4. Well, since the most basic law of economics says that in order to be solvent one must make more then they spend, this example doesn't work. So the government must raise taxes somewhere in order to offset the delinquents who leech off of the system and don't add anything to it. When does it end? how does it end? Does it make you guys mad?

Another question:

Do you guys think it is fair that a Canadian who drinks in moderation, doesn't smoke, take drugs and exercises regularly should pay for people who engage in destructive behavior, i.e drug abuse, alcoholism, morbidly obese? In other words, there's no penalty/reprecussions for people who engage in self destructive behavior in regards to their healthcare, correct? Thanks
I honestly hate having to pay for these bums. I wish we had a privatized system in a Canada personally. The "socialism" is just utterly ineffective.
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Old 01-18-2015, 10:20 PM
 
2,829 posts, read 3,184,252 times
Reputation: 2266
Quote:
Originally Posted by Buttoneyez View Post
I honestly hate having to pay for these bums. I wish we had a privatized system in a Canada personally. The "socialism" is just utterly ineffective.
Please define privatized. How privatized. And how is socialism ineffective, other than the fact that the word is fully trashed with negative connotations by certain political groups. Honestly, I hate having to pay for someone like you, but I do anyway because I hate to see a fellow human being suffer even more so just because he is unable to afford basic healthcare.

Oh, and way to resurrect a 4-year old thread out of nowhere.
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Old 01-19-2015, 04:13 AM
 
35,309 posts, read 52,449,074 times
Reputation: 31001
Quote:
Originally Posted by Buttoneyez View Post
I honestly hate having to pay for these bums. I wish we had a privatized system in a Canada personally. The "socialism" is just utterly ineffective.
Actually the system is a Canadian Social program and doesnt really make Canada a socialist country.
You would prefer instead a system like they have in the USA? where 30-40 million people either dont qualify or cant afford healthcare?.
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Old 01-19-2015, 10:03 AM
 
29 posts, read 50,678 times
Reputation: 49
One of the negative impact of Canadian health system is that many immigration applications are denied becuase a family members suffers from a disease. Those families cannot even guarantee they would not rely on government and pay expenses from pocket. And then, you go on street to see fast-food stores full of people eating junk food, and sometimes even proud of how much junk greasy food they can consume at once.


"Fair" to me means people who don't use the system pay less into it. But it shouldn't be about only the money that is taken from people. It doesn't matter if some people pay more when there is no alternative choice.


* apply hospital / doctor fees per visit.

* allow people import their drugs via internet (including pharmacies from abroad) based on their prescriptions

* allow foreign (out-of-province, out of country) insurance companies setup business easily in Canada/ Remove any provincial requirements on insurance companies that makes their job harder. For example, an insurance company should not be mandated to cover at least $X amount when damage occurs.

* allow foreign doctors open their business easily across Canada. Prevent Canadian doctors keeping their big share in health business. It seems like many people cannot practice in Canada as doctors because more doctors mean less pay.. (supply/demand)

* if someone relies on an expensive procedure, make him pay more premium for a while. Maybe for the next 3-6 years. Then pull the premium back to normal. If the person cannot pay it back, just extend the due date without too much penalty or any jail time. People should not go bankrupt because of health expenses.

* if a Canadian citizen leaves country for x number of months, do not cover him for x times 5 months when he comes back (this is for Canadians who go to live in Asia and or South American for a long time and then come back when the money dries off).

* Stop all the tariffs and non-health related regulations on fresh fruit/vegetable import. It may not be easy for some people to pick between a 3$ frozen large pizza and tomato that costs $2.99 per lb.

* Since the system covers health expenses, I would like to see cigarettes and alcoholic beverages on sale without advertisement or marketing, just like they do for cigarettes in Australia. I think every pack of cigaratte and bottle of alcohol should be sold within a uniform ugly-colored bottle or pack to reduce the abuse and usage. That expensive whisky should be sold within the same bottle of whisky that would give you the worst hungover, only with a different name on the same bottle.
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Old 01-20-2015, 05:48 PM
 
Location: Beautiful Niagara Falls ON.
10,016 posts, read 12,607,987 times
Reputation: 9030
Quote:
Originally Posted by Sonrise View Post
This was buried in the "sicko" thread, so I made it it's own.

In socialized healthcare everyone pays for everyone else, even if everyone isn't contributing, correct? For example 3 Canadians are very hard working upstanding citizens who contribute to the system through their taxes. A fourth Canadian sits on the couch, watches tv, eats chips and smokes dope all day. He contributes nothing to the system since he doesn't work. Yet in your system he is covered as much as the 3 hard working, upstanding Canadians. 3 are paying for 4. Well, since the most basic law of economics says that in order to be solvent one must make more then they spend, this example doesn't work. So the government must raise taxes somewhere in order to offset the delinquents who leech off of the system and don't add anything to it. When does it end? how does it end? Does it make you guys mad?

Another question:

Do you guys think it is fair that a Canadian who drinks in moderation, doesn't smoke, take drugs and exercises regularly should pay for people who engage in destructive behavior, i.e drug abuse, alcoholism, morbidly obese? In other words, there's no penalty/reprecussions for people who engage in self destructive behavior in regards to their healthcare, correct? Thanks
This may make you angry but from the standpoint of most Canadians your questions and comments regarding universal healthcare are irrelevant to the case and ignorant in respect to how modern democratic nation states work.

Let's take your example of a person that adds NOTHING at all to the general economy of the state. Would you deny them healthcare on that basis? If you would, then all sick infants and children should be left to die because, "what the heck"they don't contribute. In terms of healthcare, Canadians could not give a crap about how much or how little you contribute. The requirement in this country to receive good and equal care is that you be "Human". Yes, in our unAmerican ways,we care more about people than we do about money.
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Old 01-20-2015, 05:56 PM
 
22,923 posts, read 15,545,201 times
Reputation: 16962
Waaaiiit for it, waaaiiitttt for it......................
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Old 01-28-2015, 11:12 PM
 
922 posts, read 809,875 times
Reputation: 1525
i think socialized medicine is unfair, people who need help should go to a charity, most illnesses today, let's face it stem from bad lifestyle choices and diet.
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