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Old 02-16-2024, 09:20 AM
 
1,238 posts, read 510,650 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Acajack View Post
Oh I still think we'll continue to have decent growth.

I just think that our society and especially cities will become more stratified and polarized, and more chaotic and with more breakdowns in civility, between rich and poor and also between various demographic groups.

I also think it will get much harder to move from the poorer classes to the middle and upper classes, something which has been one of the best things about Canada for several generations.

There are all sorts of signs that what I am talking about is already happening.

But yeah, our economy will still continue to grow.
We are already seeing that now, the Canadian dream has become less accessible and will be even less so for future generations. I don't see cities like Vancouver or Toronto ever being friendly to the middle class again.
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Old 02-16-2024, 09:29 AM
 
Location: Gatineau, Québec
26,883 posts, read 38,086,303 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Luisito80 View Post
We are already seeing that now, the Canadian dream has become less accessible and will be even less so for futre generations. I don't see cities like Vancouver or Toronto ever being friendly to the middle class again.
The rising cost of post-secondary education in many provinces (except QC and NL) is also increasingly a barrier. No one talks about that but Ontario also has some of the highest tuition fees in the country but many of its universities are broke due to lack of funding. The government there is hesitating to allow it but I would bet on a hike to save the universities from closing. Even Queen's, one of the most prestigious in the country, is in trouble.
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Old 02-16-2024, 10:13 AM
 
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Quote:
Canada's standard of living is falling behind the rest of the developed world
OECD predicts country will rank last in real GDP per capita growth until 2060


On the surface Canada’s economic growth looks healthy. “Supercharged” immigration and population growth helped drive a quick recovery in activity after the pandemic, particularly in consumption and the housing market.

According to Statistics Canada, our population is growing at a record pace, rising by 1,050,110 in 2022, the first time in Canadian history the population has grown by more than 1 million people in a single year.

“While aggregate GDP is one thing, standard-of-living is another, and when Canada’s economic performance is adjusted for the rising population count, it reveals a picture that leaves much to be desired,” said Ercolao
https://financialpost.com/news/canad...falling-behind
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Old 02-16-2024, 10:45 AM
 
3,950 posts, read 3,311,841 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by cdnirene View Post
Market prices are determined by demand and supply. So if supply exceeds demand, prices will come down on their own without government interference. Affordability also depends on mortgage rates. If mortgage rates drop, mortgages become more affordable.
Lower mortgage rates can have the opposite effect, driving prices up allowing a larger pool of potential buyers.
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Old 02-16-2024, 10:47 AM
 
3,950 posts, read 3,311,841 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Luisito80 View Post
Lumping the entire west in the same slot when it comes to standard of living is also a mistake.

I would argue that the average UK standard of living is quite poor compared to, let's say, Australia.
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Old 02-16-2024, 12:14 PM
 
Location: Saskatoon - Saskatchewan, Canada
828 posts, read 868,042 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Acajack View Post
If we're lucky we might end up like a nicer, colder version of Brazil. If we're really unlucky, maybe South Africa.
I believe Argentina is the biggest example of what a rich developed country should fear.

Argentina was really rich and developed by the world's standards about a century ago. But over the next decades the Argentinian economy had many recessions and long periods of slow growth, first being left behind by the developed nations and after some time being left behind even by growing economies that used to be much poorer.

It didn't happen in a few years, but the decay never really stopped. Buenos Aires and other Argentinian cities are still surprisingly good-looking and relatively safe until today, but the purchasing power of the population is terrible and the social issues are becoming more and more visible.

The Argentinians tried to reverse their decay with populism and endless government spending, multiple times. Didn't work.
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Old 02-16-2024, 12:34 PM
 
1,238 posts, read 510,650 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by EduardoFinatto View Post
I believe Argentina is the biggest example of what a rich developed country should fear.

Argentina was really rich and developed by the world's standards about a century ago. But over the next decades the Argentinian economy had many recessions and long periods of slow growth, first being left behind by the developed nations and after some time being left behind even by growing economies that used to be much poorer.

It didn't happen in a few years, but the decay never really stopped. Buenos Aires and other Argentinian cities are still surprisingly good-looking and relatively safe until today, but the purchasing power of the population is terrible and the social issues are becoming more and more visible.

The Argentinians tried to reverse their decay with populism and endless government spending, multiple times. Didn't work.
Will be interesting to see how things will go with their new president. Milei is an interesting character.
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Old 02-16-2024, 12:42 PM
 
Location: Gatineau, Québec
26,883 posts, read 38,086,303 times
Reputation: 11652
Quote:
Originally Posted by EduardoFinatto View Post
I believe Argentina is the biggest example of what a rich developed country should fear.

Argentina was really rich and developed by the world's standards about a century ago. But over the next decades the Argentinian economy had many recessions and long periods of slow growth, first being left behind by the developed nations and after some time being left behind even by growing economies that used to be much poorer.

It didn't happen in a few years, but the decay never really stopped. Buenos Aires and other Argentinian cities are still surprisingly good-looking and relatively safe until today, but the purchasing power of the population is terrible and the social issues are becoming more and more visible.

The Argentinians tried to reverse their decay with populism and endless government spending, multiple times. Didn't work.
I though about Argentina as well as I was preparing my post.

When I was in school they used to tell us Argentina was richer than Canada 100 years ago.
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Old 02-16-2024, 12:43 PM
 
Location: Gatineau, Québec
26,883 posts, read 38,086,303 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Luisito80 View Post
Will be interesting to see how things will go with their new president. Milei is an interesting character.
When you've tried everything else and it hasn't worked...
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Old 02-16-2024, 12:51 PM
 
Location: Sydney Australia
2,314 posts, read 1,535,747 times
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Originally Posted by pdw View Post
Common in Asian families, but clashes with Western individualist culture. As a Canadian born with Canadian born parents, it’s very surprising to me the amount of first and second generation immigrants who live with their parents into their 30s and how the whole family is expected to pool money together to buy houses, restaurant franchises and other investments. Personal autonomy and setting your own life goals free from your parents’ wishes is hard to do and have the same level of money needed to buy a house in this country.
It is common here with Asian families but also has been common with Greek, Italian and other southern European immigrants who also come from enmeshed rather than individualistic cultures. Those cultures provided a huge number of post WW2 immigrants for Australia and I thought also for Canada.

The thing is, those original European immigrants are dying off and often their modest homes in the inner cities of Sydney and Melbourne are worth several million dollars as the areas have gentrified. They generally had only small families so people are inheriting very large amounts which are often being passed on to grandkids to help buy homes.

So the real estate market remains buoyant here despite the apparent lack of affordability.
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