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Old 03-22-2024, 08:21 AM
 
Location: Gatineau, Québec
26,874 posts, read 37,997,315 times
Reputation: 11640

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I am going to double down on the late J-F Ratelle.

I realize fewer and fewer people have land lines, but still... there are a grand total of 210 people with the surname Ratelle listed in Canada411.

As I said, it's a name that I recognize but not super common.

What are the odds of two completely different people both named Jean-François Ratelle of a roughly similar age, both being hyper-passionate about the Ukrainian-Russian relationship, with one of them writing multiple research including some on mercenaries and foreign combatants in the region, and the other actually going to Ukraine to fight the Russians?

(I don't even like the odds of having two different guys named Michel Tremblay each doing all of that separately, and that's probably the most common Québécois French Canadian given and surname combination there is.)
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Old 03-22-2024, 08:52 AM
 
3,950 posts, read 3,296,851 times
Reputation: 1692
Quote:
Originally Posted by pdw View Post
https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sudetenland
https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Anne...ian_Federation
https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Anschluss
https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Russo-Georgian_War
https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Prot...ia_and_Moravia
https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Transnistria_conflict
https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Free_City_of_Danzig
https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Invasion_of_Poland

I’m sure you can see the parallels too. I can with my high school history knowledge and simply paying attention to current events. The difference is you think the problem will go away and the world will carry along as usual if we just let it happen without a fight
There are no parallels whatsoever and it's not coming from me but by quite few very highly credentialed western professors and experts, (Jeffrey Sachs and John Mearsheimer just to give you two quick and easy examples).

Putin ain't a saint for sure and he is brutal (leaders of great powers unfortunately often are) but the Hitler parallels is kindergarten talk.
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Old 03-22-2024, 08:54 AM
 
3,950 posts, read 3,296,851 times
Reputation: 1692
Quote:
Originally Posted by Zoisite View Post
None are offered.
Don't worry, I did not think for a minute you would

Quote:
I was trying to make a point about how easily so many people (you and me included along with the rest of the participants in this thread) can all be so wrong about so much when we all start speculating about strangers based on entirely insufficient information given out online.

Case closed as far as I'm concerned.

.
Considering that I read and watch more material on the subject mine was an educated guess that turned to be the right one.
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Old 03-22-2024, 10:09 AM
pdw pdw started this thread
 
Location: Ontario, Canada
2,674 posts, read 3,090,748 times
Reputation: 1820
Quote:
Originally Posted by saturno_v View Post
There are no parallels whatsoever and it's not coming from me but by quite few very highly credentialed western professors and experts, (Jeffrey Sachs and John Mearsheimer just to give you two quick and easy examples).

Putin ain't a saint for sure and he is brutal (leaders of great powers unfortunately often are) but the Hitler parallels is kindergarten talk.
I really wish you “libertarian”, “America first” types would just admit you actually like Putin and what his government stands for. You pry enough and you always hear justifications for his invasions as if Russia is entitled to a “sphere of influence” where they can bully their neighbours into submission. The truth is I think you and people with your same point of view like the idea of a strongman leader who crushes opposition. You don’t like progressive social policies that are supported by most people in the Western world so you think a guy like Putin can bring back the “good ol days”. Nuclear families where wives fulfill traditional roles at home and stay out of the workforce. Homogenous population without multiculturalism. These are the real ideals a lot of the Putin apologists want to see.

The comparisons with 1930s Europe are very clear to most people. There hasn’t been this level of expansionism where a country is taking chunks out of their neighbours and incorporating them into their own country in at least the last 50 years. Hitler had his defenders in the West right up until we got directly involved with the war. For many of the same reasons people seem to like Putin.

You can keep your head in the sand if you want, this guy is a psycho and won’t stop unless he’s defeated in Ukraine. To avoid direct confrontation between two nuclear powers in the future, arming Ukraine to the teeth is the best way the liberal democracies of the world can preserve the relative peace we’ve enjoyed for the past half century. If Ukraine falls, China will feel emboldened to invade Taiwan and god knows what next

Last edited by pdw; 03-22-2024 at 10:18 AM..
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Old 03-22-2024, 10:34 AM
 
3,950 posts, read 3,296,851 times
Reputation: 1692
Quote:
Originally Posted by pdw View Post
I really wish you “libertarian”, “America first”
First, you do not know me, let's begin with that.

Quote:
types would just admit you actually like Putin and what his government stands for. You pry enough and you always hear justifications for his invasions as if Russia is entitled to a “sphere of influence” where they can bully their neighbours into submission. The truth is I think you and people with your same point of view like the idea of a strongman leader who crushes opposition. You don’t like progressive social policies that are supported by most people so you think a guy like Putin can bring back the “good ol days”
Great powers have sphere of influence and sphere of security, it's a matter of reality. No nation is, in principle, entitled to it but great and even middle powers do. US, Russia, China, France. You cannot childishly wishing nation with different political systems away, you have to deal with them, you have to reason with them like we did during the Cold War. If you call you adversary "butcher", "Hitler" you already prevent any basis for discussion. The degradation of western political leadership is appalling and dangerous.

Are you familiar, for example, with the so called "Hague Invasion Act"?

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Americ...from%20custody.

The act allows the president to order U.S. military action, such as an invasion of the Netherlands, where The Hague is located, to protect American officials and military personnel from prosecution or rescue them from custody.

This is a very little example of the difference between being informed and just being fed childish trope about "western values", "Putin bad we are the good guys" and so on. Reality is a little bit more nuanced than that.

Quote:
The comparisons with 1930s Europe are very clear to most people. There hasn’t been this level of expansionism where a country is taking chunks out of their neighbours and incorporating them into their own country in at least the last 50 years. Hitler had his defenders in the West right up until we got directly involved with the war. For many of the same reasons people seem to like Putin.
No, actually it is not clear to "most people", simply to the vast majority of uninformed westerners that think they are getting informed through western mainstream media with their soundbites and 7th grader level of discourse. The Global South does not see it that way at all. The world is not just the western countries.

Quote:
You can keep your head in the sand if you want, this guy is a psycho and won’t stop unless he’s defeated in Ukraine. To avoid direct confrontation between two nuclear powers in the future, arming Ukraine to the teeth is the best way the liberal democracies of the world can preserve the relative peace we’ve enjoyed for the past half century. If Ukraine falls, China will feel emboldened to invade Taiwan and god knows what next
Ukraine is finished. They bet on the wrong horse and they lost. Kissinger, former US Secretary of State, once said "It may be dangerous to be America's enemy, but to be America's friend is fatal".
They could have had a confederation of provinces with autonomy for the Russophone areas under Ukraine sovereignty and instead they choose destruction. There is no "arming to the teeth" that will reverse the situation, Russia is simply too big and powerful (geographically, demographically, militarily, scientifically and industrially) and it see a neutral non hostile demilitarized Ukraine as an existential necessity.
The best Ukraine can hope for is to resort to guerrilla warfare if Russia makes the mistake of attempting to occupy the entire country which Russia will not do. Putin is brutal but he ain't stupid. The only piece of the puzzle left is probably Odessa to connect to Transnistria. It is possible that the Russians will consider some sort of Morgenthau Plan (a plan the US initially envisioned for post war Germany) for what is left of Ukraine

Georgia seems to have got the message, Moldova not yet. Armenia is in a wait and see mode.

Last edited by saturno_v; 03-22-2024 at 10:51 AM..
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Old 03-22-2024, 10:35 AM
 
3,446 posts, read 2,772,996 times
Reputation: 4285
Quote:
Originally Posted by Acajack View Post
I am going to double down on the late J-F Ratelle.

I realize fewer and fewer people have land lines, but still... there are a grand total of 210 people with the surname Ratelle listed in Canada411.

As I said, it's a name that I recognize but not super common.

What are the odds of two completely different people both named Jean-François Ratelle of a roughly similar age, both being hyper-passionate about the Ukrainian-Russian relationship, with one of them writing multiple research including some on mercenaries and foreign combatants in the region, and the other actually going to Ukraine to fight the Russians?

(I don't even like the odds of having two different guys named Michel Tremblay each doing all of that separately, and that's probably the most common Québécois French Canadian given and surname combination there is.)
Is there no mention of the man’s death in the Quebec media?
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Old 03-22-2024, 10:42 AM
pdw pdw started this thread
 
Location: Ontario, Canada
2,674 posts, read 3,090,748 times
Reputation: 1820
Quote:
Originally Posted by saturno_v View Post
First, you do not know me, let's begin with that.



Great powers have sphere of influence and sphere of security, it's a matter of reality. No nation is, in principle, entitled to it but great and even middle powers do. US, Russia, China, France. You cannot childishly wishing nation with different political systems away, you have to deal with them, you have to reason with them like we did during the Cold War. If you call you adversary "butcher", "Hitler" you already prevent any basis for discussion. The degradation of western political leadership is appalling and dangerous.

Are you familiar, for example, with the so called "Hague Invasion Act"?

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Americ...from%20custody.

The act allows the president to order U.S. military action, such as an invasion of the Netherlands, where The Hague is located, to protect American officials and military personnel from prosecution or rescue them from custody.

This is a very little example of the difference between being infirmed and just being fed childish trope about "western values", "Putin bad we are the good guys" and so on. Reality is a little bit more nuanced than that.



No, actually it is not clear to "most people". Simply to the vast majority of uninformed westerners that think they are getting informed through western mainstream media with their soundbites and 7th grader level of discourse. The Global South does not see it that way at all. The world is not the western countries.



Ukraine is finished. They bet on the wrong horse and they lost. They could have had a confederation of provinces with autonomy for the Russophone areas under Ukraine sovereignty and instead they choose destruction. There is no "arming to the teeth" that will reverse the situation, Russia is simply too big and powerful (militarily, scientifically and industrially) and it see a neutral non hostile demilitarized Ukraine as an existential problem.
The best Ukraine can hope for is to resort to guerrilla warfare if Russia makes the mistake of attempting to occupy the entire country which Russia will not do. Putin is brutal but he ain't stupid. The only piece of the puzzle left is probably Odessa to connect to Transnistria.
And bingo the mask comes off. Didn’t take much prying, as predicted. You’re anti-West. I’d offer that the global south largely doesn’t have freedom of the press and operates in environments where journalists are imprisoned and killed but you already know that and I’m guessing will try and suggest countries like Canada are the same. I took you more for a right wing Russophile but I think you might be more of a pro-China guy now. Are you a Uyghur genocide denier? What are your thoughts on Taiwan?
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Old 03-22-2024, 10:50 AM
 
Location: ottawa, ontario, canada
2,390 posts, read 1,560,434 times
Reputation: 3110
Quote:
Originally Posted by Suesbal View Post
Is there no mention of the man’s death in the Quebec media?
La Presse has an article about this guy and another ex vingt-doo
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Old 03-22-2024, 10:56 AM
 
3,950 posts, read 3,296,851 times
Reputation: 1692
Quote:
Originally Posted by pdw View Post
And bingo the mask comes off. Didn’t take much prying, as predicted. You’re anti-West.
I'm not anti west. I'm a westerner living in the US. I'm anti stupidity, something western leaders are eager to showcase more and more.

Where are the Kennedys, the Brandt, the Trudeau (father), the Kissingers, the Kennan and so on of our era??
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Old 03-22-2024, 11:08 AM
 
1,217 posts, read 488,905 times
Reputation: 760
Quote:
Originally Posted by pdw View Post

The comparisons with 1930s Europe are very clear to most people. There hasn’t been this level of expansionism where a country is taking chunks out of their neighbours and incorporating them into their own country in at least the last 50 years. Hitler had his defenders in the West right up until we got directly involved with the war. For many of the same reasons people seem to like Putin.
I guess you have never heard of China. The CCP are much more like NAZIs than Putins Russia is.
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