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Old 05-18-2024, 06:08 PM
 
Location: Canada
7,323 posts, read 9,372,439 times
Reputation: 9860

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Quote:
Originally Posted by pdw View Post
What about a sort of partnership plan where job retention is incentivized by affordable housing being provided to construction workers on a rent-to-own type plan? If you can get into a good union (which you’ll need for the medical benefits after decades of backbreaking work takes its toll in your body) construction can be a fulfilling job. Unfortunately the type of benefits provided aren’t that enticing necessarily to young people considering how tough the job is. From the people I know who do it, a lot of framers are working 65 hour weeks in brutally cold weather and their employers are able to jump through hoops not to pay them time and a half for overtime, (you get to be an “independent contractor” like an Uber driver) and even basic things like dental plans can take a lot of searching for a job that provides it. In a shortage of workers like this, employers should be sweetening the deal a bit. Maybe actually having a chance to buy one of the hundreds of houses you’ll be helping to build over the years will make people more motivated to get into the field. I think if the government works with big developers to set something like this up, the worker shortage will change overnight.

And maybe people need to lower their expectations as to the type of house they want to buy. If people can come to a strange country, not knowing anyone, and manage to get jobs, and even take jobs for which they are over qualified, then what excuse do Canadian born people have?

If whatever field one has doesn't make a living wage, then change your field. Change your city if the cost of living is too high. I think the average household income in my area is around 65k and people are owning homes with that. They are raising children on that. So it's shocking to hear people saying that 100k is not enough to live on. It is. You may have to adjust your image of a house and you may have to move but it's enough to live on.

That doesn't mean I don't recognize we need more housing in Canada. There is a shortage in a lot of trades that make a decent living. And it shouldn't be that hard for Canadian born Canadians to switch to trades that pay well.

I am humbled every day by the challenges people face as immigrants, or as people from very unfortunate circumstances perservering against huge odds.

My friend's grandchildren who "can't" get jobs because they don't have cars have farms within a mile or two to which they could WALK and work to earn enough money to buy a beater car.

My niece and nephew have been doing just that since they were 16. That's how they bought their vehicles.
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Old 05-18-2024, 07:34 PM
pdw
 
Location: Ontario, Canada
2,709 posts, read 3,122,957 times
Reputation: 1852
I’m willing to reckon Manitoba is the least expensive location to buy a house in the whole country, especially outside of the Winnipeg area. Let’s pretend it was the opposite though for the sake of argument, and your whole family had to move to BC or Ontario because even though they had good careers and good paying jobs, it simply wasn’t enough to buy a small starter home, condo or even rent a place of their own without roommates. Let’s say they spent 4 years working through school to get a finance degree and are forced to live near the city which they currently live to maintain their career because similar jobs don’t exist elsewhere. Should they quit their job and move to a cheaper location and end up being a manager at a Wal Mart or something instead?

This is the reality a lot of people face right now. What if they rely on their children’s’ grandparents to watch their kids when they’re at work, or on the flip side, what if they have elderly family members that depend on them. Moving to somewhere cheaper makes sense for a lot of people, but it’s not a one size fits all solution. It’s a very North American point of view that doesn’t exist elsewhere in the world so much. It’s normal in Europe to stay in the area you grew up in. You can’t do that here anymore because even working super hard, not wasting money, saving and paying your way through school to earn a very good career can be barely enough to rent your own apartment anymore in BC or Ontario.

We seem as a society to be so resistant to policy changes that will help correct this. Time never slows down or goes backwards, it’s always moving forwards, we can’t expect our country not to do the same. We need way more housing to be built in the places where all the jobs are.

I get sitting on the computer complaining about it like I am isn’t accomplishing anything and people have to be realistic about their options, but if something like rampant crime from lack of police funding or gang violence in schools was an issue, I guarantee most people would want political changes to address it. Why can’t we approach housing the same way?
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Old 05-18-2024, 08:25 PM
 
Location: Canada
7,323 posts, read 9,372,439 times
Reputation: 9860
The answer to your first paragraph is yes. You do what you have to do to survive. My grandfather's dreams of becoming a doctor in Ukraine came to a screeching halt. He became a farmer and a half-assed one at that. Forget the idea life owes you something or how life "should" be and live life as it actually would be if there wasn't unemployment insurance and welfare. It would be amazing all the things people would suddenly be able to do.
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Old 05-18-2024, 08:28 PM
 
Location: Canada
7,323 posts, read 9,372,439 times
Reputation: 9860
I'm not saying housing can't be approached politically. I'm saying do both. Don't count on anything other than your own efforts.
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Old 05-18-2024, 08:55 PM
 
1,290 posts, read 540,274 times
Reputation: 792
Quote:
Originally Posted by netwit View Post
I know that. I have a brother in construction. You said we were bringing in immigrants who don't want to work in sectors "beneath them " and tied that directly to immigration in Canada.

I have nothing against Canada bringing in construction workers but the complaints about immigrants as it stands never tell entitled Canadians to get a job in construction. All I hear are complaints about housing. Sounds like an opportunity for some Canadians to quit complaining and get to work.
You clearly don't know that. Again you are making it about something its not or you're not getting it. There are many canadian construction workers. There is simply a Shortage! of people to work construction jobs. Constuction is not the only industry where this is happening. This shouldn't being happening considereing the record amount of immigrants coming in. I think you just don't like the idea of bringing working class immigrants into Canada. Maybe you don't like the idea of certain ethnic groups coming in? You have defended newer immigrants discriminating others before.

I know you have a home and don't care about generations coming behind you, but if Canada wants to catch up with home building it will have to bring in people to do it. Maybe groups you might not like. We do it with other industries like farming, fruit picking etc etc. That will have to be done with construction to if Canada wants to catch up. Sorry to break your heart. I know it probably won't happen though. The government and people already set have no intention of changing things.

Last edited by Luisito80; 05-18-2024 at 09:06 PM..
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Old 05-18-2024, 11:21 PM
 
Location: Canada
7,323 posts, read 9,372,439 times
Reputation: 9860
Quote:
Originally Posted by Luisito80 View Post
You clearly don't know that. Again you are making it about something its not or you're not getting it. There are many canadian construction workers. There is simply a Shortage! of people to work construction jobs. Constuction is not the only industry where this is happening. This shouldn't being happening considereing the record amount of immigrants coming in. I think you just don't like the idea of bringing working class immigrants into Canada. Maybe you don't like the idea of certain ethnic groups coming in? You have defended newer immigrants discriminating others before.

I know you have a home and don't care about generations coming behind you, but if Canada wants to catch up with home building it will have to bring in people to do it. Maybe groups you might not like. We do it with other industries like farming, fruit picking etc etc. That will have to be done with construction to if Canada wants to catch up. Sorry to break your heart. I know it probably won't happen though. The government and people already set have no intention of changing things.
Don't mistake your views for mine.

Apparently you can't see the disconnect between "many" Canadian construction workers and a shortage of construction workers. There aren't many construction workers or there wouldn't be a shortage. https://www.cbc.ca/radio/costoflivin...ving-1.7169441

He said the biggest difficulty is enticing young people to pursue those careers in the trades, so he's hoping word will spread about just how good the pay can be.

https://www.hrreporter.com/focus-are...-trades/368190

I have no idea why you so often try to be insulting. It's as if you mistake twisting what people say and gas lighting for an actual point. Any regular poster here would have a fairly decent understanding of my views on immigrants just as they do of yours. So I'm content to leave it at that.
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Old Yesterday, 12:56 AM
 
1,290 posts, read 540,274 times
Reputation: 792
Quote:
Originally Posted by netwit View Post
And maybe people need to lower their expectations as to the type of house they want to buy. If people can come to a strange country, not knowing anyone, and manage to get jobs, and even take jobs for which they are over qualified, then what excuse do Canadian born people have?

If whatever field one has doesn't make a living wage, then change your field. Change your city if the cost of living is too high. I think the average household income in my area is around 65k and people are owning homes with that. They are raising children on that. So it's shocking to hear people saying that 100k is not enough to live on. It is. You may have to adjust your image of a house and you may have to move but it's enough to live on.

That doesn't mean I don't recognize we need more housing in Canada. There is a shortage in a lot of trades that make a decent living. And it shouldn't be that hard for Canadian born Canadians to switch to trades that pay well.

I am humbled every day by the challenges people face as immigrants, or as people from very unfortunate circumstances perservering against huge odds.

My friend's grandchildren who "can't" get jobs because they don't have cars have farms within a mile or two to which they could WALK and work to earn enough money to buy a beater car.

My niece and nephew have been doing just that since they were 16. That's how they bought their vehicles.
Quote:
Originally Posted by netwit View Post
Don't mistake your views for mine.

Apparently you can't see the disconnect between "many" Canadian construction workers and a shortage of construction workers. There aren't many construction workers or there wouldn't be a shortage. https://www.cbc.ca/radio/costoflivin...ving-1.7169441

He said the biggest difficulty is enticing young people to pursue those careers in the trades, so he's hoping word will spread about just how good the pay can be.

https://www.hrreporter.com/focus-are...-trades/368190

I have no idea why you so often try to be insulting. It's as if you mistake twisting what people say and gas lighting for an actual point. Any regular poster here would have a fairly decent understanding of my views on immigrants just as they do of yours. So I'm content to leave it at that.
You are just as insulting and condescending and quick to make accusations. I am only responding in kind. I don't think you understand my views on immigrants at all. Unlike you i live around immigrants, and talk to immigrants every single day. And I am not talking about people of my own relgion or ethnicity either. You are just as insulting and condescending and quick to make accusations. Unlike you I don't believe in segregation.

I don't see anything wrong with bringing in people to help us get homes built and fast. Not sure what exactly your issue with that is. Unless you have a problem with immigrants that would do that type of work??? Clearly people already here(canadian or foreign) don't want to do it.

Last edited by Luisito80; Yesterday at 01:05 AM..
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Old Yesterday, 12:29 PM
Status: "Token Canuck" (set 1 day ago)
 
Location: Victoria, BC.
33,595 posts, read 37,230,635 times
Reputation: 14044
There are 1,690,000 homeless people in Canada, so I would say that there is a housing crisis.
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Old Yesterday, 01:24 PM
 
1,290 posts, read 540,274 times
Reputation: 792
Quote:
Originally Posted by sanspeur View Post
There are 1,690,000 homeless people in Canada, so I would say that there is a housing crisis.
Absolutely.
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Old Yesterday, 01:46 PM
pdw
 
Location: Ontario, Canada
2,709 posts, read 3,122,957 times
Reputation: 1852
Quote:
Originally Posted by sanspeur View Post
There are 1,690,000 homeless people in Canada, so I would say that there is a housing crisis.
It’s not talked about enough but there is honestly no way out for a lot of homeless people. I’m worried at how this gets fixed. Say you’re a homeless oxy/fentanyl addict. Miraculously you’re able to become sober and even get a job at a local Burger King on the night shift. You take your minimum wage paycheque and sleep on a park bench every night hoping eventually you get a place of your own. Then you finally have first and last saved but no one wants you as a roommate and no landlord will rent to you directly because you’re homeless and rents are too high for a full time minimum wage job to afford a room for rent. I think a lot of people would say “screw it” and go back to using drugs. If you’re homeless anyways, you might as well numb the pain with something. A lof people have no surviving friends or family who would be willing to make the sacrifices necessary to get out of a rut like this. These people are completely stuck. We need to fund support services better to get them help or the number will just keep growing and growing. People are already living in cars by the thousands in this country, what if they lose those cars? What’s next? All it takes is a series of bad events and anyone can be homeless. https://www.cbc.ca/news/canada/londo...-car-1.7037835
Here’s an article about someone going through just that. She’s not in Toronto, either, she’s in London which used to be promoted as a more affordable option in Ontario.
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