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The OP wants this thread to be about problems with American children being schooled temporarily in Canada and then having problems when they return to the US. Can you show me statistics that relate specifically to that fact? Yes, there will be issues due to differences in curriculum, as I mentioned geography and history may require some tutoring to catch them up, depending upon their ages. But show me proof that significant numbers of American children have long-term problems in school following a couple of years abroad in Canada. I don't believe you will find that many. In fact, I believe research shows that children who are exposed to studying abroad actually achieve more success long term, showing greater self-confidence, maturity, ability to cope with change, greater social skills and a broader mind.
Did I mention my Canadian born-and-raised child is getting straight A's in the US?
The OP wants this thread to be about problems with American children being schooled temporarily in Canada and then having problems when they return to the US. Can you show me statistics that relate specifically to that fact? Yes, there will be issues due to differences in curriculum, as I mentioned geography and history may require some tutoring to catch them up, depending upon their ages. But show me proof that significant numbers of American children have long-term problems in school following a couple of years abroad in Canada. I don't believe you will find that many. In fact, I believe research shows that children who are exposed to studying abroad actually achieve more success long term, showing greater self-confidence, maturity, ability to cope with change, greater social skills and a broader mind.
Did I mention my Canadian born-and-raised child is getting straight A's in the US?
I would tend to agree with this. Personally myself and my younger sister (My older sister was already in University) moved to the US from Canada before my Junior Year in High School and before her Freshmen year. At that time we lived in South Florida and saw absolutely no difference as far as standard of education is concerned.
I do have to say though that when we first emigrated to Canada from Jamaica, we found ourselves ahead of many of the Canadian children we went to school with. The fact that we started school at 3 years of age may be a reason though (We also attended Private Schools in Kingston vs Public in Toronto)
In the end though this "horrible experience" of studying in different countries turned out alright. We ended up with a CPA, Attorney and Transportation Engineer in the family. I would not be too concerned about your children's future.
I suggest you read the Harvard study that i included. In PISA, Canada performs at the level of your best performing state, which generally is Massachusetts and Ontario performs better than the Canadian average generally. So Ontario generally outperforms all US states on PISA. for the record i'm a critic of the Ontario public school system and once considered becoming a teacher and have several friends who are teachers..
Could you point me to where Ontario and Massachusetts are compared? I would be interested in reading that.
From what I have read, Massachusetts has consistently outperformed Canada and Ontario on both PISA and TMMS. It usually scored right behind Asian countries like Taiwan, South Korea, Singapore and Hong Kong. If you have a different study I would love to read it.
Actually I need to edit my sentence, I meant to say Massachusetts outperformed Canada....not Ontario. I actually wanted Stats to show me where Ontario and Massachusetts were compared.
In the study he/she posted above though, Massachusetts is ranked above Canada in every category, unless I am missing something.
Just reviewing it again and this is what I see:
- Proficient level of Math: Massachusetts 9th, Canada 11th
- Proficient level of Reading: Massachusetts 5th, Canada 10th
Last edited by edwardsyzzurphands; 02-16-2012 at 02:04 PM..
Actually I need to edit my sentence, I meant to say Massachusetts outperformed Canada....not Ontario. I actually wanted Stats to show me where Ontario and Massachusetts were compared.
In the study he/she posted above though, Massachusetts is ranked above Canada in every category, unless I am missing something.
...
Looks like Massachusetts is the American anomaly - it is the only state that outperformed Canada - the other 49 are well behind. Michigan (where sherbg is from) is far below the Canadian average as a whole but he(she) was only comparing an Ontario experience. Does that mean that the schools in Ontario are far worse than the Canadian average?
Edited to add:
No to my own question: Here are Ontario's scores - it outperforms most provinces - they don't show actual scores on this one, but as it (Ontario) ranks up there with Korea and Finland (which outperformed Mass.) it looks like Ontario individually would outperform Massachusetts. http://www.eqao.com/pdf_e/10/2009_PI...hlights_en.pdf
Last edited by sunshineleith; 02-16-2012 at 04:46 PM..
Looks like Massachusetts is the American anomaly - it is the only state that outperformed Canada - the other 49 are well behind. Michigan (where sherbg is from) is far below the Canadian average as a whole but he(she) was only comparing an Ontario experience. Does that mean that the schools in Ontario are far worse than the Canadian average?
Edited to add:
No to my own question: Here are Ontario's scores - it outperforms most provinces - they don't show actual scores on this one, but as it (Ontario) ranks up there with Korea and Finland (which outperformed Mass.) it looks like Ontario individually would outperform Massachusetts. http://www.eqao.com/pdf_e/10/2009_PI...hlights_en.pdf
Well thank goodness my child will be educated in Mass Seriously though I only put certain importance on these standardized tests, they are great to look at, but standard of education varies from City to City, Town to Town, etc.
Only issue with the Ontario study is that it is based on the 2009 test, while my link (originally Stats link) was for the 2011 study. In 2009 it seems like Massachusetts did not compete as an individual entity. In 2007 though in the TIMSS study it scored 3rd in the world only behind Chinese Taipei and Korea (The International PISA Test : Education Next) So it shows that these things can fluctuate. It is not surprising though that as a State it stands out in America, MA is the most educated state in the country (According to last census, 39% of the population holds at least a Bachelor's degree). So it is reasonable to expect that parents with College/University degrees will have certain expectations of their children.
As I said earlier though, from my personal experience I really did not see any major difference in curriculum when we moved from Ontario to Florida mid way through High School and those final 2 years (which prepped me for University) did not negatively affect my future in any way, even though I was moving from one Country that performs well in the study to one that does not.
Well thank goodness my child will be educated in Mass Seriously though I only put certain importance on these standardized tests, they are great to look at, but standard of education varies from City to City, Town to Town, etc....
Totally agree. Certainly even from the school comparisons I've seen, the results can vary widely between schools in the same city!
Actually I need to edit my sentence, I meant to say Massachusetts outperformed Canada....not Ontario. I actually wanted Stats to show me where Ontario and Massachusetts were compared.
In the study he/she posted above though, Massachusetts is ranked above Canada in every category, unless I am missing something.
Just reviewing it again and this is what I see:
- Proficient level of Math: Massachusetts 9th, Canada 11th
- Proficient level of Reading: Massachusetts 5th, Canada 10th
Mass and all of Canada are close (closer in math) and Ontario generally performs at a level higher than the Cdn average...these diffs are small but you see my point....if Mich students are so much further ahead, why don't they perform better on PISA (they perform poorly)? Are there such large differences across school boards in Mich, that would cause this problem?
I do have to say though that when we first emigrated to Canada from Jamaica, we found ourselves ahead of many of the Canadian children we went to school with. The fact that we started school at 3 years of age may be a reason though
I would agree with you here. My husband started his schooling in Trinidad and found the same thing. Yet people in Ontario are upset with the fact that the government has introduced full-day Kindergarten because "we are making our children grow up to fast."...the horror! :P
From regular trips to Trinidad, I have noticed that the importance and prestige placed on getting high grades in elementary school is much more significant than it is in North America.
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Seriously though I only put certain importance on these standardized tests, they are great to look at, but standard of education varies from City to City, Town to Town, etc.
