Things AMERICANS Should Know Before Moving To CANADA (hotels, go bankrupt)
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You've brought up this before Kathryn ( welcome back by the way I haven't seen you posting in a while ).
Your talking about one condition. I have no personal experience with it, but honestly your experience with those Canadians online may not be a true picture of what happens in Canada.
I'm basing this on your comment about knee scooters. Sorry but it is totally inaccurate. I have seen people on knee scooters in Vancouver. I " Google " knee scooters for Vancouver and I get this
So I'm afraid I have to take the rest of the post with a HUGE grain of salt. Really? Knee Scooter illegal? LOL
Since my ACTUAL experiences with our healthcare system has been stellar. I may have mentioned this before but my mother has had a brain tumour, breast cancer, both hips replaced, and cataract surgery on both eyes.
In ALL cases she was diagnosed quickly, and dealt with immediately.
Our system even gives her home care. She has someone come in EVERY morning and EVERY evening to help dress her and bathe her. The cost? $ 300.00 a month.
I have other friends who have had cancer and again, STELLAR treatment and world class care.
Good post, yes Kathryn has brought up same scenarios before.
Yep, in Canada we're dyin' in the streets...with our substandard healthcare.
From what I've read Canadians average life expectancy is higher than the USA,
how can that be with Americas vastly superior healthcare
Since my ACTUAL experiences with our healthcare system has been stellar. I may have mentioned this before but my mother has had a brain tumour, breast cancer, both hips replaced, and cataract surgery on both eyes.
In ALL cases she was diagnosed quickly, and dealt with immediately.
Our system even gives her home care. She has someone come in EVERY morning and EVERY evening to help dress her and bathe her. The cost? $ 300.00 a month.
I have other friends who have had cancer and again, STELLAR treatment and world class care.
This is really the most important evaluation of all at the end of the day Nat... What is the experience of those of who live here and actually use the system.. Is it perfect - no and are there better systems - yes, should we take it for granted - no, but if it works for us as citizens and residents of this country and we like it than i'm not really understanding how relevant the experiences (reading about it or I have a friend who couldn't get a knee scooter type) of individuals are who don't use it, who read about cherry picked horror stories, who haven't lived here in god knows how long or whose every post is targeted as being Canada sucks because of xyz that you have to wonder if they do live here, why is their experience so different than most of us over and over again. I've had good experiences on many counts with our system so I have to chime in and mirror what you say.. If it sucked we'd be the first to say so because we are the one's who are impacted by it in our daily lives.
The friends and family I have in Canada are happy overall with the health care system.
My friend/former employer his business partner was terminally ill bumped to front of que and taken care of within 4 weeks and she is living a happy, productive life right now.
America's health care system is awesome.........if you can afford it/member of US Congress/member of union with cushy benefits.....otherwise you with need some Xanax to figure out if/when you have coverage for anything and watch the loopholes when you call the CALL CENTER because you won't get a straight from them either they will hedge/ask for a supervisor and put you on hold until you give up and hang up.
The friends and family I have in Canada are happy overall with the health care system.
My friend/former employer his business partner was terminally ill bumped to front of que and taken care of within 4 weeks and she is living a happy, productive life right now.
America's health care system is awesome.........if you can afford it/member of US Congress/member of union with cushy benefits.....otherwise you with need some Xanax to figure out if/when you have coverage for anything and watch the loopholes when you call the CALL CENTER because you won't get a straight from them either they will hedge/ask for a supervisor and put you on hold until you give up and hang up.
The U.S. system is a very flawed system, but this is hyperbole. I have experienced nothing of the sort having coverage as an employee in both corporate America and in government.
The U.S. system is a very flawed system, but this is hyperbole. I have experienced nothing of the sort having coverage as an employee in both corporate America and in government.
I'm going to offer up nothing more than the observation often posted on these boards that Americans don't bother to think about Canada at all as being indicative of the level of awareness disparity between the two countries.
On the one hand we've seen, over many years, the proliferation of snowbirds heading south becoming an ever larger group numbering into the thousands upon thousands along with Canadian tourists with multiple weeks occasioning interaction with many Americans over many years of listening to a litany of horror stories about American healthcare or lack thereof.
On the other hand we have for those same decades experienced American summer property owners availing themselves of our supposedly inferior system by cheating using any form of property ownership or Canadian proof of address available to them.
I am one who has spent considerable time interacting with Americans over many decades and have personally lost friends to the outright denial or delaying of coverage to the point of no return.
I have also heard them many, many times, even though the bulk of my friends already qualify for Medicare, express the opinion, a sensible approach would have been to adopt a single-payer system eons ago.
I find it more than passing strange with all of the contact multiple thousands of Canadians have had with Americans, hearing their tales of woe regarding the insurance nightmares they've experienced over decades along with the filching of free Canadian care by thousands of American summer residents in Canada that anyone would attempt to offer up the premise that the Canadian system is inferior.
Bottom line; Canadians know far, far more about the American model than the obverse and would never entertain the notion of emulating it in exchange for what we currently have. No way, no how, not ever.
Couple that with the knowledge no other first world country with a single payer or universal system would trade places with Americans and there is no credible argument left for a negative comparison of any of them to the American model.
Simply put, you keep yours and we will very happily keep ours while constantly striving to improve it by keeping the profit motive as far away from it as possible.
I'm going to offer up nothing more than the observation often posted on these boards that Americans don't bother to think about Canada at all as being indicative of the level of awareness disparity between the two countries.
On the one hand we've seen, over many years, the proliferation of snowbirds heading south becoming an ever larger group numbering into the thousands upon thousands along with Canadian tourists with multiple weeks occasioning interaction with many Americans over many years of listening to a litany of horror stories about American healthcare or lack thereof.
On the other hand we have for those same decades experienced American summer property owners availing themselves of our supposedly inferior system by cheating using any form of property ownership or Canadian proof of address available to them.
I am one who has spent considerable time interacting with Americans over many decades and have personally lost friends to the outright denial or delaying of coverage to the point of no return.
I have also heard them many, many times, even though the bulk of my friends already qualify for Medicare, express the opinion, a sensible approach would have been to adopt a single-payer system eons ago.
I find it more than passing strange with all of the contact multiple thousands of Canadians have had with Americans, hearing their tales of woe regarding the insurance nightmares they've experienced over decades along with the filching of free Canadian care by thousands of American summer residents in Canada that anyone would attempt to offer up the premise that the Canadian system is inferior.
Bottom line; Canadians know far, far more about the American model than the obverse and would never entertain the notion of emulating it in exchange for what we currently have. No way, no how, not ever.
Couple that with the knowledge no other first world country with a single payer or universal system would trade places with Americans and there is no credible argument left for a negative comparison of any of them to the American model.
Simply put, you keep yours and we will very happily keep ours while constantly striving to improve it by keeping the profit motive as far away from it as possible.
I disagree. I have yet to have an intelligent conversation with the average Canadian re: The US HC System (What does that even mean anyways?) To also be fair, its impossible to have an intelligent conversation with an American regarding the Canadian system either. Look at someone like Kathryn above, who is a very intelligent poster, but relies on facebook posts to educate her on an entire system (Not attacking you Kathryn)
As far as no one trading places with the US system, I would actually challenge that statement. The US System is in a state of reform now, only the early stages and showing great success. Its funny that people who are pro Universal Healthcare rely on googling fear mongering anti-Obamacare stories to educate themselves on the progresses of the new law. These sites are linked directly to far right wing think tanks (Similar to the Fraser Institute in Canada) who have an agenda. Now why do they have an agenda? Well many reasons, but most of all it is due to the ACA working in the real world and the CBA and other reliable organizations agree. It is of course not perfect, but nothing is perfect a few years into reform. What we should focus on are the trends and those are positive.
Just a few highlights:
- The uninsured rate has dropped 30.1% overall and on average 36% in states that expanded Medicaid
- 30 day medicare readmission rates are down considerably across all health admissions
- Healthcare inflation is down every year since 2013 (3.6%-5.7% depending on year)
- Hospital acquired medical conditions are down 17%
This is in addition to the basic numbers out there when it comes to the total number of uninsured. Even though I wish they would stop including undocumented immigrants in those numbers, as they made up 1/5th of the uninsured leading up into the passage of the ACA. It makes for cloudy numbers that those with an agenda pounce on.
Finally your assertion that Single Payer is the only option is a flawed way of thinking. There are only a handful of nations that employ a true single payer system. Universal HC and Single payer are not always the same thing. This is exactly why the US studied the Swiss and Dutch HC models when writing the ACA.
So in other words this is a subject that is much too complex for someone to truly educate themselves on, unless they have alot of time on their hands to really get up to speed. It would be like someone walking into a room full of petroleum engineers and trying to educate them on horizontal drilling because I googled a wiki or newspaper article one afternoon. Imagine how ridiculous you would sound?
Last edited by edwardsyzzurphands; 09-06-2015 at 11:49 AM..
You've brought up this before Kathryn ( welcome back by the way I haven't seen you posting in a while ).
Your talking about one condition. I have no personal experience with it, but honestly your experience with those Canadians online may not be a true picture of what happens in Canada.
I'm basing this on your comment about knee scooters. Sorry but it is totally inaccurate. I have seen people on knee scooters in Vancouver. I " Google " knee scooters for Vancouver and I get this
So I'm afraid I have to take the rest of the post with a HUGE grain of salt. Really? Knee Scooter illegal? LOL
Since my ACTUAL experiences with our healthcare system has been stellar. I may have mentioned this before but my mother has had a brain tumour, breast cancer, both hips replaced, and cataract surgery on both eyes.
In ALL cases she was diagnosed quickly, and dealt with immediately.
Our system even gives her home care. She has someone come in EVERY morning and EVERY evening to help dress her and bathe her. The cost? $ 300.00 a month.
I have other friends who have had cancer and again, STELLAR treatment and world class care.
In addition to knee scooters being available in Canada, they are also available to rent.
So it isn't necessarily as clear-cut a situation as a treatment that fixes things being available in one country and not in another, but rather a question of different approaches. It has seemed to me that Americans want and expect quick fixes, whereas, perhaps partly because health care is publically funded here, there is a more cautious approach in Canada, which in some cases, as appears to be the case with the Achilles tendon, turns out to be warranted.
You can find websites anywhere, where people are complaining about the care they receive for something or the other. And sometimes the patient doesn't him or herself quite understand their treatment.
This interested me personally due to the fact that I have herniated discs that have caused me no end of misery in terms of my sciatic nerve. I have not waited at all for MRIs, etc, or visits to neurosurgeons and the news always came back that at this time they would not operate. And yet I have an American friend, who had a condition that sounded similar (we always have to be careful in assuming that just because some conditions sound the same, that they actually are the same to a physician.
Anyway, it seems, from the research I've done that outcomes for those who have disc surgery and those who don't, are the same. So, so far I have not decided to have anything done out of country. But the Canadians I know who have had similar-sounding situations have gone to Germany, not the US, for disc replacement surgery.
My doctor has talked about maybe having disc surgery here in three or four years and since nothing about this surgery sounds all that easy or great to me, I'm waiting and taking it one day at a time.
I disagree. I have yet to have an intelligent conversation with the average Canadian re: The US HC System (What does that even mean anyways?) To also be fair, its impossible to have an intelligent conversation with an American regarding the Canadian system either. Look at someone like Kathryn above, who is a very intelligent poster, but relies on facebook posts to educate her on an entire system (Not attacking you Kathryn)
As far as no one trading places with the US system, I would actually challenge that statement. The US System is in a state of reform now, only the early stages and showing great success. Its funny that people who are pro Universal Healthcare rely on googling fear mongering anti-Obamacare stories to educate themselves on the progresses of the new law. These sites are linked directly to far right wing think tanks (Similar to the Fraser Institute in Canada) who have an agenda. Now why do they have an agenda? Well many reasons, but most of all it is due to the ACA working in the real world and the CBA and other reliable organizations agree. It is of course not perfect, but nothing is perfect a few years into reform. What we should focus on are the trends and those are positive.
Just a few highlights:
- The uninsured rate has dropped 30.1% overall and on average 36% in states that expanded Medicaid
- 30 day medicare readmission rates are down considerably across all health admissions
- Healthcare inflation is down every year since 2013 (3.6%-5.7% depending on year)
- Hospital acquired medical conditions are down 17%
This is in addition to the basic numbers out there when it comes to the total number of uninsured. Even though I wish they would stop including undocumented immigrants in those numbers, as they made up 1/5th of the uninsured leading up into the passage of the ACA. It makes for cloudy numbers that those with an agenda pounce on.
Finally your assertion that Single Payer is the only option is a flawed way of thinking. There are only a handful of nations that employ a true single payer system. Universal HC and Single payer are not always the same thing. This is exactly why the US studied the Swiss and Dutch HC models when writing the ACA.
So in other words this is a subject that is much too complex for someone to truly educate themselves on, unless they have alot of time on their hands to really get up to speed. It would be like someone walking into a room full of petroleum engineers and trying to educate them on horizontal drilling because I googled a wiki or newspaper article one afternoon. Imagine how ridiculous you would sound?
It really isn't all that complex at all and EVERYONE is at least as capable of understanding the nuances of a for-profit system if Americans themselves pretend to.
Where did I say Universal or single payer were one and the same system. I used both terms for a reason. Had I thought they were identical I would only have needed to use one, would I not?
I did not assert anywhere in my post single payer was "the only option" YOU are attributing that to me when I stated that was the opinion of my American friends who are predominantly eligible for Medicare and no longer have a dog in this stupid hunt that only one first world nation is having spasms over.
Your assertion of all of those dropping uninsured figures in the year 2015 is proof positive, for any thinking person, you've had a problem, a big one for decades. It's only now showing signs of improvement.
Finally I will reiterate once more; Canadians for the most part are more than familiar with the failings of the U.S. model. Our much higher degree of fraternization and interaction with Americans, that no one can possibly debate, guarantees that. The claim oft repeated on these very boards that Americans bother little to think about Canada or Canadians at all also guarantees it.
My post was directed at those who would attempt to castigate Canada's system in any way while comparing it to America's. If you are not one of those, then why are you responding?
So it isn't necessarily as clear-cut a situation as a treatment that fixes things being available in one country and not in another, but rather a question of different approaches. It has seemed to me that Americans want and expect quick fixes, whereas, perhaps partly because health care is publically funded here, there is a more cautious approach in Canada, which in some cases, as appears to be the case with the Achilles tendon, turns out to be warranted.
You can find websites anywhere, where people are complaining about the care they receive for something or the other. And sometimes the patient doesn't him or herself quite understand their treatment.
This interested me personally due to the fact that I have herniated discs that have caused me no end of misery in terms of my sciatic nerve. I have not waited at all for MRIs, etc, or visits to neurosurgeons and the news always came back that at this time they would not operate. And yet I have an American friend, who had a condition that sounded similar (we always have to be careful in assuming that just because some conditions sound the same, that they actually are the same to a physician.
Anyway, it seems, from the research I've done that outcomes for those who have disc surgery and those who don't, are the same. So, so far I have not decided to have anything done out of country. But the Canadians I know who have had similar-sounding situations have gone to Germany, not the US, for disc replacement surgery.
My doctor has talked about maybe having disc surgery here in three or four years and since nothing about this surgery sounds all that easy or great to me, I'm waiting and taking it one day at a time.
I think the bolded part of your reply is a very important point for everyone to keep in mind. If you search hard enough (actually its quite simple) you can find horror stories about every system and procedure on earth. Of course people are allowed to and should be encouraged to share negative stories, but if you only focus and search for the negative it tends to warp your thinking. It is great that you understand that so well Netwit.
Re: Spinal surgery. Germany is the preferred destination over the US because they are just as effective as the best in the US and far more affordable even after the cost of travel. Friedrichshafen, Stenum and the countless clinics in Hamburg (Called the city of medicine for a reason) are the household names for this type of procedure.
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