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This would be the same Winnipeg that elected an openly gay mayor, that was one of the first provinces to allow same-sex marriage, and that regularly elects provincial NDP governments? The same Winnipeg I've lived in? Currently live near? Do tell.
Perhaps you have confused the tendency of ridings to go Conservative in federal elections with conservatism US-style?
That is rather inaccurate. The actual difference between the two countries (according to Nationmaster) is only 6%. In fact, 44% of Americans say they attend church regularly, as opposed to 38% of Canadians - so the majority in both countries are more or less non-religious (as far as church attendance is concerned anyways).
I think Canadians are just far less prone to tell other people what they should believe and have no interest who politicians are sleeping with.
We mind our own business and live our own lives - in that sense, we are more liberal - or perhaps more laissez-faire.
I think there's a perception that because we don't expect our politicians to make their faith a part of their campaigns, that we are less religious. We also have less denominations, and particularly are lacking in the evangelical types of churches that there are in the US. So I think that percentages themselves only say so much because there's a difference in beliefs between, say, a southern Baptist church goer there and a United Church goer here.
I remember reading but can't be bothered to google it for a link, that when David Wilkins was the new ambassador to Canada and he peppered his first speech with references to God, only to be told - whether by his staff or someone else I don't recall - that Canadians think that is weird. He later in interviews remarked himself on that as well, feeling that the papers here had put undue emphasis on his religious references in order to make him look like a stereotypical, slightly cuckoo, religious freak.
All I know is when Canadian politicians have tried the God angle, it doesn't sound natural to me.
Winnipeg certainly has a long progressive/left-leaning history that you might call “liberal” in the American context. Most significantly, as a a large city it was almost from the outset home to people from widely diverse backgrounds. Whereas most other cities in Canada started off as very WASPish or French, and then people from other horizons arrived somewhat later in the game.
Winnipeg also has a long history of trade and labour militancy/activism.
This would be the same Winnipeg that elected an openly gay mayor, that was one of the first provinces to allow same-sex marriage, and that regularly elects provincial NDP governments? The same Winnipeg I've lived in? Currently live near? Do tell.
Perhaps you have confused the tendency of ridings to go Conservative in federal elections with conservatism US-style?
Confused hardly...
Born and raised for over 25 years. Regardless of the fact it elects the NDP, it's a very polarized place with conservatives coming into power and the liberal party is a joke.
Elections there if you have lived there for any length of time consist of polarization with the majorities usually flipping between the NDP and the Tories.
The place regardless of who is in power is also very homey conservative and doesn't like to take any risks. It's like a small town (which has good things about it and bad). People don't like outside influences, they don't like change, they won't take risks... the pace is slow and ironicaly even with former pro-business like parties it can't even encourage development.
It's not a free thinking liberal bastion it's "insular". That's a very conservative mind set which people aren't open to ideas... the city is stiffled by this and has been... look how long it took to get a friggin Arena in the downtown, and people are still complaining about it.
Just because you have liberal or left leaning parties and policies in power doesn't mean things are suddenly open.
Winnipeg still is very conservative in nature... in its mindset and its residents. Try seeing how much people there will give money to support the arts, and they'll say what a waste of tax payers dollars.
If you were to list those American cities, plus Canada's major metros, from most liberal to least liberal, what would that list look like. And by liberal, i mean fully progressive (anti-gun, anti-SUV, pro-gay, pro-socialism, pro-muslim, pro-black, pro-atheism, pro-recreational drugs)
I'm only going to answer in terms of Toronto. Different Canadian cities are different.
-Anti-Gun. Toronto is very anti-gun. I do not know of anybody in Toronto (including all of my friends and relatives) who own a gun. It may be different in economically disadvantaged areas.
-Anti-SUV. People in Toronto will sneer at Hummers. That being said, some people do own them here.
-Pro-Gay. There was relatively little opposition to same-sex marriage here. Toronto's gay village is starting to fall apart due to lack of a need to congregate in any one area.
-Pro-socialism. We don't tend to think of our single-payer healthcare system as socialism. We think of our system as capitalism with safety nets. We do have a fairly extensive system of Community Centres that offer drop-in basketball, ball hockey plus classes, weight-rooms and swimming pools. People in need can use these services for free and centres in impoverished areas often are cheaper in general. Americans would probably label this as socialism but we wouldn't.
-Pro-Muslim. I live very close to Thorncliffe Park which has a huge South Asian population. Hajibs are the norm and burkas are not uncommon either. I occasionally shop at Iqbal Halal Market after I drop my son off at his Catholic school. Shoppers are not guaranteed to have an English-speaking checkout clerk but I'm not the only Caucasian customer in there.
-Pro-black. Toronto has a huge Jamaican community. My kitchen includes All-Spice and Ting has been on sale for 69 cents a bottle this week. A prototypical kindergarten class will have a few black kids mixed in with a few (East) Asian kids and a few South Asian kids with the other half of the class being Caucasian. Toronto did recently create an Afrocentric School at the request of parents within the black community. We also have an aboriginal-centric school and a gay-centric school.
-Pro-atheism. There wasn't much of a controversy here about the atheist bus ads. I actually thought the response from the United Church of Canada was quite funny. I'd like to think that all choices of belief or non-belief will go down equally. The school board tries to be all-inclusive even to religions like Wiccanism.
-Pro-recreational drugs. Marijuana isn't seen as a dangerous substance here. The radio station that I listen to has daily references to it. I'd suspect that a decent percentage of the population would consider decriminalizing it or even legalizing it (to get the tax revenue).
Born and raised for over 25 years. Regardless of the fact it elects the NDP, it's a very polarized place with conservatives coming into power and the liberal party is a joke.
Elections there if you have lived there for any length of time consist of polarization with the majorities usually flipping between the NDP and the Tories.
The place regardless of who is in power is also very homey conservative and doesn't like to take any risks. It's like a small town (which has good things about it and bad). People don't like outside influences, they don't like change, they won't take risks... the pace is slow and ironicaly even with former pro-business like parties it can't even encourage development.
It's not a free thinking liberal bastion it's "insular". That's a very conservative mind set which people aren't open to ideas... the city is stiffled by this and has been... look how long it took to get a friggin Arena in the downtown, and people are still complaining about it.
Just because you have liberal or left leaning parties and policies in power doesn't mean things are suddenly open.
Winnipeg still is very conservative in nature... in its mindset and its residents. Try seeing how much people there will give money to support the arts, and they'll say what a waste of tax payers dollars.
Ever hear of the Royal Winnipeg Ballet?
Out of curiosity smakawhat, which cities in the middle of the United States would you consider to be more liberal (progressive) overall than Winnipeg?
Progressive is a term that doesn't define political leaning, progressing towards what exactly.
There are tonnes of liberal minded cities in towns ALL OVER the US.
Washington DC
San Francisco
Seattle
Takoma Park Maryland
The entire state of Vermont etc.. which is its own little mindset
just because you approve gay marriage doesn't suddenly mean you're a liberal bastion. Plenty of people in the US have no problem with, and plenty of people in Winnipeg DO. Trust me on that.
Maine for example is a very traditional leave me alone place, and they voted in a ref this November to not have gay marriage. But most people there don't care about it, their idea is I don't care what you do in your f'ing bedroom and the gov shouldn't tell me either... Do you see the difference??? This isn't an issue about painting people with the same brush... whos liberal whos not, it's not the same issues overlap people think differnently and cities hold viewpoints on all SORTS of issues.
The ballet in Winnipeg yes is resepected for what it is sure... However the WAG is crumbling, and even though the US in general is not a big supporter of the arts, the business community and individuals put the money up to support builiding and programs related to the arts. See the difference it's not about whose conservative or liberal they can support and like the same things just differntly...
So getting back on topic... the original poster has blanket ideas of what Canadian cities are vs American... pro this pro that..
what the hell is pro Muslim ? That's like saying I am pro Vegan... what the hell does that mean exactly?
No city/town is uniformly pro this pro that, it may favor something more than others but you can't paint everyone with the same brush.
Are CDN cities more liberal than San Fransisco? Sometimes yes... sometimes NO..
San Francisco may sell itself as this liberal utopia, but it's stupidly exclusive and filled with limousine liberals. It's also not ethnicaly diverse at all in my opinion there's hardly any African Americans there what so ever. so how does that make it progressive???
But it is a real cool city, has fantastic dining, and awesome transportation infrastructure, but the BART STINKS (smells!). Fact last time I was there.. I saw in a window right in one of the neighborhoods... shocker... a McCain Palin sign for 2008.... wow should have snapped a picture...
Last edited by smakawhat; 11-25-2009 at 08:06 AM..
I could say that liberalism could be associated by some with economic policy that gives primacy to capitalism and free market forces (and indeed outside of North America that is how liberalism is often defined, but in the U.S. in particular it is associated with leftism.
Quote:
Originally Posted by smakawhat
There are tonnes of liberal minded cities in towns ALL OVER the US.
Washington DC
San Francisco
Seattle
Takoma Park Maryland
The entire state of Vermont etc.. which is its own little mindset
Of course there are. Many places in the U.S. are more "liberal" (in the U.S. sense) that many places in Canada.
But none of these places you named is in the mid-section of the United States.
So my question still stands - which cities in the middle U.S. could be said to be as or more liberal/progressive than Winnipeg? The Twin Cities of Minnesota? Maybe...
Ah citing Wikipedia... that's a valid reference if there ever was one...
Ah... so you meant in the middle of the US... Ah I see..
I dig Minneapolis St. Paul area not sure how liberal minded the city is... it's traditionaly democract voting but has lately been a swing state. As for the city I didn't get much of a feel for the peoples mindset other than people there are heck of a lot nicer than other places in the US.
If you are asking about a liberal minded city/town in mid US I haven't spent much time in a lot of the cities/towns in that area. But the one place that totaly comes to mind though is Austin Texas.
I'm only going to answer in terms of Toronto. Different Canadian cities are different.
-Anti-Gun. Toronto is very anti-gun. I do not know of anybody in Toronto (including all of my friends and relatives) who own a gun. It may be different in economically disadvantaged areas.
-Anti-SUV. People in Toronto will sneer at Hummers. That being said, some people do own them here.
-Pro-Gay. There was relatively little opposition to same-sex marriage here. Toronto's gay village is starting to fall apart due to lack of a need to congregate in any one area.
-Pro-socialism. We don't tend to think of our single-payer healthcare system as socialism. We think of our system as capitalism with safety nets. We do have a fairly extensive system of Community Centres that offer drop-in basketball, ball hockey plus classes, weight-rooms and swimming pools. People in need can use these services for free and centres in impoverished areas often are cheaper in general. Americans would probably label this as socialism but we wouldn't.
-Pro-Muslim. I live very close to Thorncliffe Park which has a huge South Asian population. Hajibs are the norm and burkas are not uncommon either. I occasionally shop at Iqbal Halal Market after I drop my son off at his Catholic school. Shoppers are not guaranteed to have an English-speaking checkout clerk but I'm not the only Caucasian customer in there.
-Pro-black. Toronto has a huge Jamaican community. My kitchen includes All-Spice and Ting has been on sale for 69 cents a bottle this week. A prototypical kindergarten class will have a few black kids mixed in with a few (East) Asian kids and a few South Asian kids with the other half of the class being Caucasian. Toronto did recently create an Afrocentric School at the request of parents within the black community. We also have an aboriginal-centric school and a gay-centric school.
-Pro-atheism. There wasn't much of a controversy here about the atheist bus ads. I actually thought the response from the United Church of Canada was quite funny. I'd like to think that all choices of belief or non-belief will go down equally. The school board tries to be all-inclusive even to religions like Wiccanism.
-Pro-recreational drugs. Marijuana isn't seen as a dangerous substance here. The radio station that I listen to has daily references to it. I'd suspect that a decent percentage of the population would consider decriminalizing it or even legalizing it (to get the tax revenue).
Interesting comments, though I am not sure about some of them.
I am pretty sure for example that most if not all cities in the U.S. that are Toronto's size have some form of subsidized recreational activities for lesser fortunate children.
I also don't see how having lots of hijab-wearing people or black people or any other minority group makes a city pro-anything. The population of many large U.S. cities can be highly diverse as well, and you see people of all origins (including women in traditional islamic dress) on the streets all the time.
And I am not sure if most Jamaican-Canadians would describe Toronto as "pro-black". The Afro-centric school was created precisely because there is a huge problem with the educational and economic attainment and societal integration of young boys of Jamaican origin in Toronto. Consider that a sizeable Jamaican community has been in the city for over 50 years, and we are in the early 21st century and only now trying to do something about the problem...
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