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I am going to be new to being a caregiver soon. In June, I move in with my mom. She has Parkinsons as well as diabetes and a heart condition, but it's really the Parkinsons that's impacting her. She's still pretty lucid, but she's starting to lose her short term memory and she's making poorly thought through decisions. She was always a very intelligent and sharp woman, she's not the same as she used to be. For example, she's almost been scammed a few times and she now things legit things are scams. She can't tell the difference. Luckily, she thinks to ask me about these things first.
I haven't moved in yet, but I am trying to help her (and to a lesser extent) my brother with a situation they got themselves in. Originally I posted this in a different financial forum but I think they can't help me with this, maybe it's the wrong forum. They try to be helpful, but all they says is to hire a lawyer (which she did). Maybe this is more of a how to handle a loved one's lost thinking capacity when engaging in legal documents.
Here is the background first: My brother and sister-in-law bought land with my mom several years ago. The idea was to subdivide and and build houses on it. Well, it turned out the county wouldn't let them subdivide it even though it's pretty big. But they both built houses on it anyway that are essentially one house legally (connected with a breezeway). Since I will be moving in with mom as a caretaker and roommate, I thought about buying into it but changed my mind because it's a messy situation. But, in the process of considering buying into it, I learned the details of the complicated housing situation and how this could be bad news for my brother if mom ever needs Medicaid. He could lose his house and both he and my mom didn't know about that.
I convinced mom and my brother to contact a lawyer to figure out a solution to the deed/possible Medicaid issues. After much pushing for them to do this, they finally contacted one. It turns out even the lawyer thinks it's complicated due to the way the deed is written. The lawyer agrees with me that they need a solution to avoid any future issues and that I am right that my brother can lose his house if my mother ever goes on Medicare. Now the issue:
The lawyer my mom hired is having her sign a quit claim deed to my brother and then she's just going to live in her house (which will be his). I was shocked to find out she was going to sign this next week with no provision for protecting her home. I asked her if the lawyer didn't say something about some kind of agreement (like a 99 year lease) where she can live in the house and not get kicked out. She said the lawyer did keep trying to say something about that, but she poo-pooed the idea because she trusts my brother (her son). I told her that I trust my brother too, but I asked her what would happen if my brother unfortunately dies before she does? Does she trust her daughter-in-law to let her stay or will my sister-in-law want to sell and move? Or what if they get divorced and have to sell the property? Mom is homeless in both situations. This got mom thinking and she's going to go back to the lawyer.
I want to protect my mom and also, to a degree, my brother who just isn't financially savvy. They already managed to get themselves into a potentially bad situation after all.
Any advice on how I can handle all this? I asked my mom to not sign anything until I move in and can be with her when talking to the lawyer. Currently, I live about two hours away so it's not feasible for me to meet with lawyers until after I move. I have durable power of attorney for my mom if that means anything. I am in the middle of selling my own house and my daughter's high school graduation too right now so I don't have much bandwidth for anything else so I rather have mom wait until June. She said she will wait, but she's also not all there sometimes and might forget that she agreed to wait. Should I contact the lawyer myself and tell him all this? Do I have any legal right with the power of attorney to do that?
Seems you prematurely pushed them to do something before you arrived and could go to a lawyer together. The Medicaid issue can wait until June. The way to handle your mom's lost thinking capacity is to make sure your mother signs NOTHING. DO NOT let your mother compromise her rights, assets, life, etc. Do whatever it takes.
When you get there, then you can get second, third & fourth opinions. Ask the attorney what type of DPOA you have. Different documents are used in different states. Ask what other documents are needed so you can take over for your mother if needed. Ask about the Medicaid planning. And ask if something like a trust might be a better solution with the house, so that she and her heirs are all protected. Many will give you a free 1/2 hour.
At some point you might consider her making you her guardian. You never know what people with dementia will sign. My SIL with dementia went on a roll, and her deceitful caregiver got his name on her deed and few other significant assets, so the family ended up having to rescue her (legally).
O.k., if I'm understanding this correctly, it is legally one house currently co-owned by your mom, your brother and his wife.
Your mom's lawyer has told her to sign a quit claim in order to protect the property from future Medicaid issues.
Your mom's health is in decline and you are going to sell your own home and move in with your mother to serve as her caregiver. You are concerned that if she signs the quit claim deed without any provisions to protect her own interests, that something might happen in the future with your brother and/or his wife necessitating the sale of the property which would wind up leaving your mom essentially homeless.
I guess another issue might be - what happens if you move in with your mom and discover that caring for her 24/7 is not going to work out? If your brother signs a 99 year lease with your mom, does that then mean he can't sell his own property and will be on the hook for providing care for your mom no matter what?
I agree, that this situation does sound tricky. How old is your mom and what are the ages of your brother and his wife?
I am going to be new to being a caregiver soon. In June, I move in with my mom. She has Parkinsons as well as diabetes and a heart condition, but it's really the Parkinsons that's impacting her. She's still pretty lucid, but she's starting to lose her short term memory and she's making poorly thought through decisions. She was always a very intelligent and sharp woman, she's not the same as she used to be. For example, she's almost been scammed a few times and she now things legit things are scams. She can't tell the difference. Luckily, she thinks to ask me about these things first.
I haven't moved in yet, but I am trying to help her (and to a lesser extent) my brother with a situation they got themselves in. Originally I posted this in a different financial forum but I think they can't help me with this, maybe it's the wrong forum. They try to be helpful, but all they says is to hire a lawyer (which she did). Maybe this is more of a how to handle a loved one's lost thinking capacity when engaging in legal documents.
Here is the background first: My brother and sister-in-law bought land with my mom several years ago. The idea was to subdivide and and build houses on it. Well, it turned out the county wouldn't let them subdivide it even though it's pretty big. But they both built houses on it anyway that are essentially one house legally (connected with a breezeway). Since I will be moving in with mom as a caretaker and roommate, I thought about buying into it but changed my mind because it's a messy situation. But, in the process of considering buying into it, I learned the details of the complicated housing situation and how this could be bad news for my brother if mom ever needs Medicaid. He could lose his house and both he and my mom didn't know about that.
I convinced mom and my brother to contact a lawyer to figure out a solution to the deed/possible Medicaid issues. After much pushing for them to do this, they finally contacted one. It turns out even the lawyer thinks it's complicated due to the way the deed is written. The lawyer agrees with me that they need a solution to avoid any future issues and that I am right that my brother can lose his house if my mother ever goes on Medicare. Now the issue:
The lawyer my mom hired is having her sign a quit claim deed to my brother and then she's just going to live in her house (which will be his). I was shocked to find out she was going to sign this next week with no provision for protecting her home. I asked her if the lawyer didn't say something about some kind of agreement (like a 99 year lease) where she can live in the house and not get kicked out. She said the lawyer did keep trying to say something about that, but she poo-pooed the idea because she trusts my brother (her son). I told her that I trust my brother too, but I asked her what would happen if my brother unfortunately dies before she does? Does she trust her daughter-in-law to let her stay or will my sister-in-law want to sell and move? Or what if they get divorced and have to sell the property? Mom is homeless in both situations. This got mom thinking and she's going to go back to the lawyer.
I want to protect my mom and also, to a degree, my brother who just isn't financially savvy. They already managed to get themselves into a potentially bad situation after all.
Any advice on how I can handle all this? I asked my mom to not sign anything until I move in and can be with her when talking to the lawyer. Currently, I live about two hours away so it's not feasible for me to meet with lawyers until after I move. I have durable power of attorney for my mom if that means anything. I am in the middle of selling my own house and my daughter's high school graduation too right now so I don't have much bandwidth for anything else so I rather have mom wait until June. She said she will wait, but she's also not all there sometimes and might forget that she agreed to wait. Should I contact the lawyer myself and tell him all this? Do I have any legal right with the power of attorney to do that?
I do hope you have all necessary paper work done.As I posted about my wife with dementia after 67 years married,we had a situation where some legal paperwork had to be done for her requiring her signature and reading,she was able to use dureable power of attorney allowing me to do it.
Seems you prematurely pushed them to do something before you arrived and could go to a lawyer together. The Medicaid issue can wait until June. The way to handle your mom's lost thinking capacity is to make sure your mother signs NOTHING. DO NOT let your mother compromise her rights, assets, life, etc. Do whatever it takes.
When you get there, then you can get second, third & fourth opinions. Ask the attorney what type of DPOA you have. Different documents are used in different states. Ask what other documents are needed so you can take over for your mother if needed. Ask about the Medicaid planning. And ask if something like a trust might be a better solution with the house, so that she and her heirs are all protected. Many will give you a free 1/2 hour.
At some point you might consider her making you her guardian. You never know what people with dementia will sign. My SIL with dementia went on a roll, and her deceitful caregiver got his name on her deed and few other significant assets, so the family ended up having to rescue her (legally).
Yeah, I wish now that I had not mentioned to them the complications with Medicaid until "after" I moved in. But I really didn't expect my mom to start trying to sign paperwork either. I am just glad she mentioned it to me or else it would be too late.
Thanks for the advice. I will look into the documents that I have already (I might get my own attorney actually, one that specializes in elder care issues like this).
Quote:
Originally Posted by springfieldva
O.k., if I'm understanding this correctly, it is legally one house currently co-owned by your mom, your brother and his wife.
Your mom's lawyer has told her to sign a quit claim in order to protect the property from future Medicaid issues.
Your mom's health is in decline and you are going to sell your own home and move in with your mother to serve as her caregiver. You are concerned that if she signs the quit claim deed without any provisions to protect her own interests, that something might happen in the future with your brother and/or his wife necessitating the sale of the property which would wind up leaving your mom essentially homeless.
I guess another issue might be - what happens if you move in with your mom and discover that caring for her 24/7 is not going to work out? If your brother signs a 99 year lease with your mom, does that then mean he can't sell his own property and will be on the hook for providing care for your mom no matter what?
I agree, that this situation does sound tricky. How old is your mom and what are the ages of your brother and his wife?
Yep, you understand it correctly (legally one house, owned by three people... although if you looked at it, it is two houses separated by about 80 feet).
Yes, I am selling my house and moving in with mom to care for her. My plan is to stay with her until she dies and then move out. I don't want her to sign her house away or expose herself to being evicted should the house have to be sold. The 99 year lease would have to be written in such a way that my brother could sell his house. My brother's idea was, if that comes before mom dies, he would have to give her the value of her structure back to "buy her out of the lease." I really don't know if that's legal or would work. But part of what needs to be done is to sit down and figure out the possibilities and plan for them... before mom signs any quit claim.
As far as me not caring for her, that's just not an option. I could never do that. But I see your point. What I feel and think now might not be the same in a few years. She does have long-term care insurance that will cover a night nurse so if it gets to a point where she needs 24/7 care. So I will get a break.
Quote:
Originally Posted by DanBev
I do hope you have all necessary paper work done.As I posted about my wife with dementia after 67 years married,we had a situation where some legal paperwork had to be done for her requiring her signature and reading,she was able to use dureable power of attorney allowing me to do it.
I have the durable power of attorney that basically allows me to do anything (the way it's written). But I will run it by a lawyer.
Quote:
Originally Posted by AZgarden
Usually the home you live in is exempt when applying for Medicaid. So why the quit claim deed? I don't get it.
It's exempt until you die. That's the issue. If mom goes on Medicaid and then dies, her house and land (which is also my brother's/sister-in-law's since they are on the deed together) can be sold to pay back Medicaid. The lawyer confirmed this is a risk. My brother and his family could be forced to sell in that situation. Part of this is to protect him. They built a custom "dream house" on the land and they don't want to move again.
Quote:
Originally Posted by springfieldva
Another thing to consider are the tax implications of a quit claim deed and whether or not Medicaid would view that as a gift to your brother.
Have they considered simply selling the house, splitting the proceeds and getting their own separate houses?
I didn't think of the tax implications. This is a mess. I swear it sounds like I need to get a conference with an estate attorney, Medicaid/elder care attorney, real estate attorney, and CPA. I really wish I could just step away from it all, but I don't want to leave my family in a lurch.
Yeah, I wish now that I had not mentioned to them the complications with Medicaid until "after" I moved in. But I really didn't expect my mom to start trying to sign paperwork either. I am just glad she mentioned it to me or else it would be too late.
Thanks for the advice. I will look into the documents that I have already (I might get my own attorney actually, one that specializes in elder care issues like this).
Yep, you understand it correctly (legally one house, owned by three people... although if you looked at it, it is two houses separated by about 80 feet).
Yes, I am selling my house and moving in with mom to care for her. My plan is to stay with her until she dies and then move out. I don't want her to sign her house away or expose herself to being evicted should the house have to be sold. The 99 year lease would have to be written in such a way that my brother could sell his house. My brother's idea was, if that comes before mom dies, he would have to give her the value of her structure back to "buy her out of the lease." I really don't know if that's legal or would work. But part of what needs to be done is to sit down and figure out the possibilities and plan for them... before mom signs any quit claim.
As far as me not caring for her, that's just not an option. I could never do that. But I see your point. What I feel and think now might not be the same in a few years. She does have long-term care insurance that will cover a night nurse so if it gets to a point where she needs 24/7 care. So I will get a break.
I have the durable power of attorney that basically allows me to do anything (the way it's written). But I will run it by a lawyer.
It's exempt until you die. That's the issue. If mom goes on Medicaid and then dies, her house and land (which is also my brother's/sister-in-law's since they are on the deed together) can be sold to pay back Medicaid. The lawyer confirmed this is a risk. My brother and his family could be forced to sell in that situation. Part of this is to protect him. They built a custom "dream house" on the land and they don't want to move again.
I didn't think of the tax implications. This is a mess. I swear it sounds like I need to get a conference with an estate attorney, Medicaid/elder care attorney, real estate attorney, and CPA. I really wish I could just step away from it all, but I don't want to leave my family in a lurch.
I agree. Not only are there tax implications, but if she needs Medicaid soon, transferring her portion of the property isn’t going to fly. Medical looks back several years to see if money or property was transferred (I think five years), and the transfer might disqualify her.
I agree. Not only are there tax implications, but if she needs Medicaid soon, transferring her portion of the property isn’t going to fly. Medical looks back several years to see if money or property was transferred (I think five years), and the transfer might disqualify her.
I don't think she's going to need Medicaid any time soon. Of course, I can't say if it will be five years or not, no one really knows. The doctor says it could be years even a decade before she needs that level of care... or maybe never. Parkinsons is unique for everyone. But it still presents a risk to my brother and his home if she does need the care. And if she doesn't the quit claim puts my mom at risk if something happens to my brother. Then there are tax implications others are bringing up.In short, it's a mess.
But right now she's still living alone, driving her car, going to grocery store, etc. She still cooks her dinner and does light cleaning, etc. I go to her house just about every weekend to do yardwork (she can't do that anymore) and help with bigger/more rigorous cleaning projects and such. She doesn't drive at night anymore and sometimes has bad days for days on end where she can't get around well and can't eat. She needs someone to care for her during these episodes. But mostly she needs someone for the company I think.
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