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How does one do that with a "severely demented" person exactly?
My auntie is in the last stages of dementia but on a good day can tell where her clothes are kept in the care home. they are all different .. its a sad state of affairs for the family .wish you luck.
For all who are reading this, the most important lesson is to address ALL of these things before it gets to this stage. Get POA, get your name on accounts, get control of all things relevant. Easier said than done.
For the OP.
Get POA.
Forget what the old folks "want". This is no longer about them. It is about the people who will step in to take good care of them.
Remember that gramps bit-ching today will not even be an issue a day/week/month from now as he declines.
Get control of the assets. House/bank/investments, etc.
Get them into a full care memory unit at a good facility. It will run you about $10,000 per month...maybe a little less if you get a place which gives you a deduction for "two" patients. They probably won't live together but can spend their days together in various activities.
Once the residence is taken care of, get the family to agree on who can put a little in the kitty each month. The facility will also have reserve funds for such cases. They won't throw people out onto the street. They have seen all of this before and can/will work with you.
Good luck, horrible situation. But you are not the first. Take care of YOURSELF first. Without you, there is no them.
There is no will - no POA - no funeral/burial expenses paid for - absolutely nothing. They have burial plots, but that's it.
They've had a terrible marriage. He's been physically abusive (and probably even fairly recently - you'd have to parse through some of the dementia babble - but he didn't deny hitting her), long felony record, alcoholic, etc. She's no saint - she's had an extremely cruel streak, and would give as much as she gave with the bad relationship. Still, you hate to see someone suffer like this during the last years.
The grandfather is blocking any attempts at helping.
Aside from the dementia, she's relatively healthy. He has severe congestive heart failure, won't take medication, etc.
I would consult with an attorney in your area who deals with elder care. They can steer you in the right direction with a free phone consultation. If your community has either a city program or private elder care agency that one that might work too. Asking people on CD is not a good option. Every city / state is different
In my personal experience my elderly mom fell in her home and was treated at home by paramedics. That triggered a person from the city with Adult Protective Services who came by to assess if she was fit to live at home alone. If they deemed she was not capable of living alone they could have forced her into assisted living or a nursing home. I believe Medicare will pay up to 90 days no matter what your financial situation. During that time family members can do whatever paperwork is necessary to get her long term care. Its quite possible that a phone call to the right local agency could get the ball rolling. But again each community is different.
I am no legal expert but from my experience your grandfather cannot prevent your grandmother from getting the assistance she needs. Just like there is child protective services that can overrule the parents and take children out of a dangerous situation.
Last edited by Oklazona Bound; 10-13-2022 at 08:01 AM..
For all who are reading this, the most important lesson is to address ALL of these things before it gets to this stage. Get POA, get your name on accounts, get control of all things relevant. Easier said than done.
For the OP.
Get POA.
Forget what the old folks "want". This is no longer about them. It is about the people who will step in to take good care of them.
Remember that gramps bit-ching today will not even be an issue a day/week/month from now as he declines.
Get control of the assets. House/bank/investments, etc.
Get them into a full care memory unit at a good facility. It will run you about $10,000 per month...maybe a little less if you get a place which gives you a deduction for "two" patients. They probably won't live together but can spend their days together in various activities.
Once the residence is taken care of, get the family to agree on who can put a little in the kitty each month. The facility will also have reserve funds for such cases. They won't throw people out onto the street. They have seen all of this before and can/will work with you.
Good luck, horrible situation. But you are not the first. Take care of YOURSELF first. Without you, there is no them.
The place she is going today has some level of memory care support. It does not appear to be their main business, but under the circumstances and given how the family is wanting her in Kingsport, this is about the best they can do. They live almost to Norton, VA.
There are no investments. It's all in savings, to my knowledge. I really don't expect him to be around much longer. He is not going anywhere, at least as of yet, though it would be good for him.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Oklazona Bound
I would consult with an attorney in your area who deals with elder care. They can steer you in the right direction with a free phone consultation. If your community has either a city program or private elder care agency that one that might work too. Asking people on CD is not a good option. Every city / state is different
In my personal experience my elderly mom fell in her home and was treated at home by paramedics. That triggered a person from the city with Adult Protective Services who came by to assess if she was fit to live at home alone. If they deemed she was not capable of living alone they could have forced her into assisted living or a nursing home. I believe Medicare will pay up to 90 days no matter what your financial situation. During that time family members can do whatever paperwork is necessary to get her long term care. Its quite possible that a phone call to the right local agency could get the ball rolling. But again each community is different.
I am no legal expert but from my experience your grandfather cannot prevent your grandmother from getting the assistance she needs. Just like there is child protective services that can overrule the parents and take children out of a dangerous situation.
She is going to an assisted living today. I dug around, and the place does offer some memory care services. I don't know if they are equipped to handle an advanced dementia patient. This isn't "she's slipping a little" - she doesn't know, literally, the difference between wiping her rear end. vs her nose. Someone in that kind of shape is not a candidate for traditional assisted living.
What I'm concerned about is that this place won't be able to provide the level of care that she needs, then we're in another mad scramble to find some place for her to go before she gets sent home. What absolutely should not be happening is sending her home with him. She looks at him sometimes with a look of absolute terror on her face.
I called my dad this morning, and he mentioned that the nurses had to get on to grandfather yesterday because he was yelling at her while she was trying to eat. The staff had to tell him to settle down, or that he'd have to leave.
The situation is bad as it is with her health declining. Grandfather is completely uncooperative, bordering on violent at times. Nothing's been done in terms of finances.
The place she is going today has some level of memory care support. It does not appear to be their main business, but under the circumstances and given how the family is wanting her in Kingsport, this is about the best they can do. They live almost to Norton, VA.
There are no investments. It's all in savings, to my knowledge. I really don't expect him to be around much longer. He is not going anywhere, at least as of yet, though it would be good for him.
I would talk to a financial person regarding the assets. You don't want to make any hasty withdrawals or transfers. If both need nursing case $100k or whatever they have will go very fast. And once its gone and you apply for government paid assisted living they will go back several years of bank statements and also check for assets. Any expenditures should be easy to explain.
I would talk to a financial person regarding the assets. You don't want to make any hasty withdrawals or transfers. If both need nursing case $100k or whatever they have will go very fast. And once its gone and you apply for government paid assisted living they will go back several years of bank statements and also check for assets. Any expenditures should be easy to explain.
And therein lies the problem.
We have absolutely no idea how much money they really have, or how they've spent things over the last few years. Keep in mind that she's severely demented, and he's probably mild to moderately demented. They don't really do anything or go anywhere, but their spending might not be rational or easy to explain.
My guess is that their finances are relatively simple, but we just don't know.
I'm confused on how grandma has "her money" while grandpa has "his money". Since they are married won't his money have to go for her care if she's put into a facility and her money runs out?
Most likely yes, but Grandpa doesn't seem to be aware of that fact. That will no doubt be an issue down the road.
At this point, I don't know who would serve as the guardian.
One sister's husband is sick himself, and they have a small business. She's got her hands full. The other sister isn't working now, but she's one of the ones that doesn't seem to realize there's a big problem. My dad and one of his brothers both still work basically full-time. My dad is overtaxed between his parents and my mom as it is. The other brother just doesn't seem to care.
I don't see that anyone will step up here. The people who care already have too much on their plates.
It sounds like a professional, court-appointed guardian will have to do. And they BOTH need one!
Quote:
Originally Posted by Serious Conversation
Personally, I think APS does need to be involved, but he is the type who will hate you for the rest of his life if you do that.
Reports to Adult Protective Services can be made confidentially, FYI. Gramps can hate whoever made the call, but he won't have any idea of who that person is.
Have you told the social worker and her doctor at the hospital that her husband abused her? They are mandated reporters.
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