Please register to participate in our discussions with 2 million other members - it's free and quick! Some forums can only be seen by registered members. After you create your account, you'll be able to customize options and access all our 15,000 new posts/day with fewer ads.
No worries, I've no problem accepting the fact that you think I'm stupid. Mine are as usual lounging outside or inside. perfectly safe and happy and nobody around here has garages, let alone those with electronically operated doors. Just a couple of months ago a friend who has to keep her cats contained (condo rules) lost one of hers in a freak electrical accident while she was out shopping and her cats were "safely" inside. And mine don't "roam". I'm surrounded by acres of bush, four other houses on a private rough road and the furballs are never further away than a brief "everybody in!" call. I'm stupid and a bad, unloving caretaker. Darn it, I thought I was so perfect.
OK, sorry for the crude language, should not have used it, my apology, but also, be aware that I did not say you are stupid, the idea is stupid, ("I think it is really, sorry to say this, stupid to let your cat roam") and don't feel you are, but feel that it is not smart to do what you are doing. I learned. Who cares there are no garages with electric doors. I am betting if I knew your area I could list a number of real dangers they are exposed to.
I could sit here for a long time and list stories I know of lost and injured cats all over the place, not just here, elsewhere. Everyone who lost a cat or had an outside injury was thinking like you - I was one of them!! I was just like you, felt I could do it - no more!
To some extent, this is true. It's amazing that there are no owls, hawks, eagles, coyotes, loose dogs, badgers, mink, wolves, fox other human beings (sadists, cat killers, cruel kids) etc where you live. You must be in a very isolated place, like an island offshore. Few of us live is such places.
Exactly. I do not mean to attack the messenger, but I do attack her idea that it is safe. I can list even more stories, like the time I had Mr. Cat out on one of his "normal, good for him" jaunts outside, always near the house, and an outside cat came by, he got mad, attacked that cat who then bit deeply into his chest causing a pool of blood to flow out and I had to rush to the vet who saved him.
And this was after years of Mr. Cat being outside "safely, with me watching over him, and him right near the house".
Actually I think the logic would be quality versus quality and a weighing of risk. If a person believes that the cat will gain years of increased happiness and satisfaction by being permitted to go outside, versus a -chance- it could be harmed, which then should be divided between the chance it will be killed almost instantly versus the chance it could be injured or get sick...
I think ultimately people want their pets to be as happy and comfortable as possible and to minimize any suffering. But different people have differing ideas on how to achieve this. And some cats really are past the point where they'd ever be happy 100% indoors.
I have a coworker who said that she had an indoor cat and an indoor/mostly-outdoor cat. The outdoor cat lived about as long and did not get overweight or have dental problems the way her indoor cat did. Of course we're talking about an owner who didn't really do the food research, fed dry food, and couldn't afford dental cleanings at the vet, too...
I thought just like you. Then, when I built my attached enclosure, with shelves and a flap to the DR, I woke up and realized something: The cats were so happy to feel safe and not in any danger, secure and yet wail at the neighbor's cat as he came to "visit" them on the other side, to be there at 10 PM with raccoons and possums all walking feet away, looking for food, to watch all the birds on the holly trees, etc. They could sleep in the enclosure on a balmy afternoon, with not a care in the world.
Happy? I think that they are more happy, feeling safe.
To some extent, this is true. It's amazing that there are no owls, hawks, eagles, coyotes, loose dogs, badgers, mink, wolves, fox other human beings (sadists, cat killers, cruel kids) etc where you live. You must be in a very isolated place, like an island offshore. Few of us live is such places.
It's pretty obvious from my location that I live on an island. And, yes, the area of the island in which I live has hawks soaring overhead but in 30 years here I've never even heard of one attacking a cat. Their prey is smaller birds and small lizards. Yes, there are several dogs in the area who are sometimes out beyond the confines of their yards and they steer clear of the cats who they amusingly seem to find highly intimidating. No owls, eagles, coyotes, wolves, badgers, mink, foxes or local sadists. Which again simply makes my point that it depends on where one lives.
Quote:
Originally Posted by =^..^=
So do natural predators like owls, night hawks and snakes. These will also feed on the cats.
It's people with your attitude that are selfishly causing the extinction of other creatures on this earth. Cats are not native to the USA. Our birds have no evolutionary experience with cats.
The list of other creatures besides birds killed by cats is a long one.
Our snakes are little bitty harmless grass snakes and if "birds have no evolutionary experience with cats" then we must have some very rare genetically engineered birds here as both the bananaquits and the thrashers often go out of their way to taunt cats. In 30 years my cats have caught three 'quits and not one thrasher. They HAVE brought in (and occasionally killed) small lizards, tiny baby iguanas, bats (no rabies here) and huge fruit moths - but most I manage to save. If I'm representative of "people with (this) attitude" then God and evolution bless us all as I've been rescuing animals all my life - horses, donkeys, dogs, rats, iguanas, birds and, of course, my cats (all of whom have been rescues). Preach on.
It's pretty obvious from my location that I live on an island. And, yes, the area of the island in which I live has hawks soaring overhead but in 30 years here I've never even heard of one attacking a cat. Their prey is smaller birds and small lizards. Yes, there are several dogs in the area who are sometimes out beyond the confines of their yards and they steer clear of the cats who they amusingly seem to find highly intimidating. No owls, eagles, coyotes, wolves, badgers, mink, foxes or local sadists. Which again simply makes my point that it depend on where one lives.
Our snakes are little bitty harmless grass snakes and if "birds have no evolutionary experience with cats" then we must have some very rare genetically engineered birds here as both the bananaquits and the thrashers often go out of their way to taunt cats. In 30 years my cats have caught three 'quits and not one thrasher. They HAVE brought in (and occasionally killed) small lizards, tiny baby iguanas, bats no rabies here) and huge fruit moths - but most I manage to save. If I'm representative of "people with (this) attitude" then God and evolution bless us all as I've been rescuing animals all my life - horses, donkeys, dogs, rats, iguanas, birds and, of course, my cats (all of whom have been rescues). Preach on.
The environment you've described resembles very little, if any, of the US. So if you feel the posts don't apply to you, that's fine I guess. But they do apply to 99.9% of people reading this forum.
I know on the farm people have a different attitude about their cats' lives. It's true, death is a part of life.
Premature death is caused by something - disease, accident, whatever. A cat should live to be at least 15 yrs. This isn't the case for most indoor-outdoor cats.
Quote:
I lived next to a farm for a few years as a kid and would play with the barn cats. I wouldn't see one of them for a while and eventually would ask the farmer, and he'd say "Oh, he got distemper" or "The fox got her."
And these cats meant nothing to him. They were free cats. They were not pets. Their life had no value in his eyes. Nothing new there where farms are concerned. Most farmers believe animals are here to be used. USED any way man sees fit to profit himself! If questioned, they refer to the bible....
Quote:
I get it. In nature death is the natural order of things, and these were barn cats with their farm job of keeping the rodents down, not family members. For those of us whose cats are family members, we can't take these things in stride so much.
And it's due to humans that there are so many stray/feral cats in the world. They aren't native to this country. They all descend from pets, some VERY recently (like last week). The birds that they kill are not supposed to have cat predators in these numbers. They do, and it's a fact of life but that doesn't make it right, or mean we shouldn't do what we can to alleviate the problem.
And it's not just the songbirds that cats kill by the millions here in the USA. They also kill and eat lizards, skinks, small snakes, voles, moles, small rabbits, young possums, squirrels, the young of water fowl and upland birds such as quail. Anything small enough to overpower and kill will be killed by cats. Cats are natural born predators. The feral cats may be doing the most damage but also add the millions of housecats out there also hunting and killing.
Exactly. I do not mean to attack the messenger, but I do attack her idea that it is safe. I can list even more stories, like the time I had Mr. Cat out on one of his "normal, good for him" jaunts outside, always near the house, and an outside cat came by, he got mad, attacked that cat who then bit deeply into his chest causing a pool of blood to flow out and I had to rush to the vet who saved him.
And this was after years of Mr. Cat being outside "safely, with me watching over him, and him right near the house".
No more!!
Most of us who have spent a lot of time working with or owning, who have cat owning friends and relatives, who have worked in animal Hosp's and with Rescues have seen or heard horrible stories of what happened to cats allowed outside to roam. Horrible injuries from all types of causes. Poisonings. Fatal diseases, cats that were tortured.....
People wont take it seriously until it happens to them, to their cats. The loss of the cat or a good hit to their wallet where it really hurts will often change their minds.
That there are other options does not mean that barn cats are not a valid option.
They're valid when they can be somehow be convinced to leave the birds alone. Grain kept under cover (and we had a mix of oats, corn and wheat plus Purina Goat Chow) is not eaten by birds. It's a dumb as dirt farmer who leaves grain exposed.
Quote:
Again, that doesn't mean that barn cats are not a legitimate tool. Barn cats are not pets. They are a tool.
So?
Quote:
My, someone took their rude pill, didn't they? And I see you washed it down with some overwrought juice!
Get real!
Quote:
Humans are not native to the US. So what?
And how is that related to the slaughter of birds and anything else cats can catch and overpower? You never heard of the American Indian? They've been here a lot longer than cats.
Quote:
And they don't look like they're going away anytime soon, so again, I won't be losing any sleep over this made up tragedy.
Of course you wont. Wildlife is meaningless and of no value to people like you.
The environment you've described resembles very little, if any, of the US. So if you feel the posts don't apply to you, that's fine I guess. But they do apply to 99.9% of people reading this forum.
I'm simply making the point that it depends on where you live.
FYI I lived almost a third of my life in the UK in many different areas, almost a third of my life in the US mainland in many different areas and now have lived on this island for almost 30 years - in many different areas of it. There have been and are certain areas wherever I've lived and live where I would NOT take up residence because they wouldn't be safe for those in my care.
What I do resent and object to is the blatant or inferred condemnation of those whose cats are allowed outside. Situations are different wherever one lives and it's very rude to point fingers at someone and accuse them of being irresponsible simply because their situation differs from yours. Not once in this thread have I ever condemned someone who keeps their cats inside, wouldn't dream of it, and surely should expect the same civility from others. I have MANY friends here on island who have solely indoor cats (and dogs) but we've never got into peeing contests over it and it would never remotely cross our minds to do so.
Please register to post and access all features of our very popular forum. It is free and quick. Over $68,000 in prizes has already been given out to active posters on our forum. Additional giveaways are planned.
Detailed information about all U.S. cities, counties, and zip codes on our site: City-data.com.
Please register to participate in our discussions with 2 million other members - it's free and quick! Some forums can only be seen by registered members. After you create your account, you'll be able to customize options and access all our 15,000 new posts/day with fewer ads.
Few of us live is such places.
These will also feed on the cats. 
