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He was never "pulled out" of anywhere. I've seen him out of there a couple of times. Each time he's been out, he's ventured out on his own accord.
He immediately ran into the hole within ten minutes or so of me opening the pet taxi. I suspected he would gingerly venture out, coolly checking the room out, while I went from jeans and a coat to shorts in my own home. It's not like I was gone all day, or even half an hour. No more than five or ten minutes. He found those holes quickly and made a beeline for them.
Keep in mind I was under the impression the cat was socialized. The agency rep sort of sold him as a sweet cuddlebug at the adoption event. Within minutes of coming in here, he hides and his behavior since shows he is mostly, if not completely, feral. If I had any clue he was feral, I wouldn't have just casually let him out. There's no way I would have known about the gaps under the cabinets. You can't see them unless you are lying prone on the floor. I have no reason to do that.
The big negative reaction was when he was in my bedroom the first week and jumped on the vanity. I did the horror of attempting to pick him up to gently put in in the floor and get him out of the bedroom. It was the middle of the night. I was tired. I was going on autopilot from every other cat I've had. I got ripped up for it.
I get the impression some folks are blaming me for this, but I had no reason to believe the cat wasn't socialized. Sure, I didn't make the perfect moves, but I wasn't expecting to be bringing a feral cat home. What's irritating me now is that he's holed up somewhere where I can't really do anything about it. I can't get him out. I can't take him to the vet. I'm at his mercy.
I'm not trying to blame you, rather I'm trying to have you understand his perspective on the situation. I've been around a lot of feral cats and even adopted one and she is now one of the sweetest and most loving pets I've ever had. You can continue to think he is feral and use this as a reason he isn't warming up to you very much but I disagree. Any feral cat I've ever known will not allow you within 10-20 feet of them if you're lucky. They don't sit calmly in a adoption event and pretend to be social until you take them home. He never would have let you come close enough to even attempt to pick him up. He would have hissed, shown his teeth and told you to stay the hell away from him. It sounds like he was ok with having you close and picking him up and then got really scared for whatever reason. He may have only known one or two humans his entire life and had no idea what your intentions were being a complete stranger to him in a strange place. Being feral and not being very social are two very different things. My truly feral cat now greets me at the door when I come home, loves to sit with me and watch TV, and is constantly looking for attention from me. When I first picked her up after several months of gaining her trust I was scared she would rip into me but she didn't. She's still very afraid of all people, all except for me. If she hears the doorbell, she immediately runs and hides. I let her have her hiding places and never attempt to coax her out. I've accepted her for who she is and feel fortunate to have her and give her a loving home.
As previously stated, neutering will go a long way towards calming him down. He's a teenager at this point and his hormones are probably part of the problem.
A good idea regarding this has already been stated. You can safely trap him, bring him to the vet to have him neutered and then take him home and release him again in your home. Do not try to grab him and put him in a carrier to take him to a vet. Set a trap with food while you're gone for a few hours. If he's in the trap when you come home, go straight to the vet with him. This time though, when you bring him home don't go looking for him and just leave him alone when he goes to hide. He'll be relieved he's now back in a familiar place.
Again, I'm not blaming you but you need to understand how his thinking works. It's not about you and what you want from him until he can trust you.
BTW, him not coming out of his hiding place is not a problem unless you make it one. He'll come out on his own eventually. He needs to trust you first and it may take another month or two. In the mean time if you can be patient I think you're going to have a great pet.
Last edited by marino760; 12-11-2019 at 06:11 AM..
He is not going to become socialized or friendly in a home where the person is never home. "Getting to him" would make no difference except to set him back. The way to proceed in these cases is at the kitten's pace, but you aren't ever there for him to get used to.
Even a well socialized kitten would be struggling in this environment. Kittens need people around to become socialized and remain socialized.
No I'm not blaming you, I'm blaming the person or people who just wanted to unload a kitten without checking if the home was suitable. Not to mention, not neutering first.
I would be happy to be proved wrong but you need to understand that this is going to take many months if not years. And being intact, he will likely begin to spray soon.
Trapping him and taking him to be neutered is paramount. When you bring him back from the vet, your home will be a familiar place, in comparison to being at the vet, and that is a positive thing.
But the bottom line is, you aren't home enough to turn him (or any kitten) into a socialized friendly cat. A bonded pair of adult cats, or an adult cat who prefers to be an only would be a better choice for you, though I wonder why you want a pet at all since you aren't ever home? Not having a dig here, it just seems you don't really understand that animals have needs, they don't do well left alone too much.
I have a typical 8-5 job, occasionally a bit more. Thirty minute commute each way. I'm usually home by 7-7:30 at night. I'm not home on the weekends as much (especially during the warmer months), but it's not like I'm a road warrior that's gone all week and just home on the weekend. Maybe I gave that impression, but I'm usually off by 5 and it's often dinner or the gym for a couple of hours. Lots of people have schedules like this with animals. Last week was busy, but that was atypical.
I wouldn't be opposed to him using the hole as a hiding spot, but I hardly ever see him out of it, and there's very little evidence he's actually doing things in the house aside from eating, drinking, and going to the bathroom. The catnip mouse was a few inches from the entrance and half the wand came off in the hole, so he didn't have to come out much to get them.
What I'm most concerned about is that he doesn't seem to be engaging with his environment much, even when I'm not there. I've had many other cats with various personalities - many weren't "lap cats" - but I can't think of one of them that seemed so disengaged with the environment. A few things appeared to have been moved over the last few days, but I'll open the window and move the curtains and move the placemats when I eat. I'm not sure he touched any of it.
The fact that he's in the hole is causing other isuses. I keep the litterbox in the kitchen just so I know he'll use it. I don't want the litterbox in the kitchen, but I'm afraid if I move it, he won't use it and will just go wherever.
It's becoming extremely frustrating. The kitchen stinks with the box. I'm constantly sweeping or vacuuming litter that gets tracked around. He's hardly ever getting out that I can tell. We're about a month into this and his behavior is basically no different now than it was fifteen minutes after he came into the house.
Quote:
Originally Posted by marino760
I'm not trying to blame you, rather I'm trying to have you understand his perspective on the situation. I've been around a lot of feral cats and even adopted one and she is now one of the sweetest and most loving pets I've ever had. You can continue to think he is feral and use this as a reason he isn't warming up to you very much but I disagree. Any feral cat I've ever known will not allow you within 10-20 feet of them if you're lucky. They don't sit calmly in a adoption event and pretend to be social until you take them home. He never would have let you come close enough to even attempt to pick him up. He would have hissed, shown his teeth and told you to stay the hell away from him. It sounds like he was ok with having you close and picking him up and then got really scared for whatever reason. He may have only known one or two humans his entire life and had no idea what your intentions were being a complete stranger to him in a strange place. Being feral and not being very social are two very different things. My truly feral cat now greets me at the door when I come home, loves to sit with me and watch TV, and is constantly looking for attention from me. When I first picked her up after several months of gaining her trust I was scared she would rip into me but she didn't. She's still very afraid of all people, all except for me. If she hears the doorbell, she immediately runs and hides. I let her have her hiding places and never attempt to coax her out. I've accepted her for who she is and feel fortunate to have her and give her a loving home.
As previously stated, neutering will go a long way towards calming him down. He's a teenager at this point and his hormones are probably part of the problem.
A good idea regarding this has already been stated. You can safely trap him, bring him to the vet to have him neutered and then take him home and release him again in your home. Do not try to grab him and put him in a carrier to take him to a vet. Set a trap with food while you're gone for a few hours. If he's in the trap when you come home, go straight to the vet with him. This time though, when you bring him home don't go looking for him and just leave him alone when he goes to hide. He'll be relieved he's now back in a familiar place.
Again, I'm not blaming you but you need to understand how his thinking works. It's not about you and what you want from him until he can trust you.
BTW, him not coming out of his hiding place is not a problem unless you make it one. He'll come out on his own eventually. He needs to trust you first and it may take another month or two. In the mean time if you can be patient I think you're going to have a great pet.
I really don't understand why people want to keep the hole available for him.
He's not using it as a "safe space" in a crisis. Best I can tell, he's rarely coming out of it, even when I'm not there. Keep in mind I have not seen him since two weeks ago this past Monday. This is his full time spot. He'll likely eventually outgrow the opening. If he was out in the house more and seemed more engaged, then ran in the hole to avoid me, I wouldn't be so discouraged.
TwoStep (DCD no response to password request two times ago) was the most loving tiny furball of six pounds. She would sleep draped over my throat. I have what SO refers to "marks of the tiger" on my right forearm. Any Kipling readers out there? Three wide white four inch scars - she was scared and we were not well acquainted yet.
ShadowCat - hence her name. She spent her first six months with us under the bed, came out to eat and do her business when she felt safe. Yes, box and tray in out bedroom. She slept on my pillow until her last day.
ChaCha - after 11 years she wants to be close, allows daily brushing and touching initiated by her.
Izzi&Bizzi - teenager. Enough said?
Foxy - purebred Turkish Van stray, male. Bonded with mother to total trust. Everyone else got a very cold shoulder or bodily damage.
Me - do not corner me, do not manhandle me, do not pick me up in the middle of the night when I am sitting on the sink.
Does "kitten" have a name?
As some of the folks here have said - it takes time, diligence and being there. A scared cat is not a an hour or two per day in 30 days process. OP's expectations and kitten's needs do not seem to meet in the middle.
My plan would be this: knowing that he does come out of the hole, set the trap. Take him to the vet and while he's gone, get his toys out of the hole and block it. With anything, a brick or three. (Send some pics of the entrance and maybe we can suggest something.)
He's used to having a hidey hole there, so just give him a box with a hole in the side and put his toys in it. Start to move the litterbox out of the kitchen a bit at a time. If it stinks, use better litter. Just use common sense and keep at it.
The Saturday fry up is a great idea. Put a small treat near the entrance and see if he takes it while you're there.
I have a typical 8-5 job, occasionally a bit more. Thirty minute commute each way. I'm usually home by 7-7:30 at night. I'm not home on the weekends as much (especially during the warmer months), but it's not like I'm a road warrior that's gone all week and just home on the weekend. Maybe I gave that impression, but I'm usually off by 5 and it's often dinner or the gym for a couple of hours. Lots of people have schedules like this with animals. Last week was busy, but that was atypical.
I wouldn't be opposed to him using the hole as a hiding spot, but I hardly ever see him out of it, and there's very little evidence he's actually doing things in the house aside from eating, drinking, and going to the bathroom. The catnip mouse was a few inches from the entrance and half the wand came off in the hole, so he didn't have to come out much to get them.
What I'm most concerned about is that he doesn't seem to be engaging with his environment much, even when I'm not there. I've had many other cats with various personalities - many weren't "lap cats" - but I can't think of one of them that seemed so disengaged with the environment. A few things appeared to have been moved over the last few days, but I'll open the window and move the curtains and move the placemats when I eat. I'm not sure he touched any of it.
The fact that he's in the hole is causing other isuses. I keep the litterbox in the kitchen just so I know he'll use it. I don't want the litterbox in the kitchen, but I'm afraid if I move it, he won't use it and will just go wherever.
It's becoming extremely frustrating. The kitchen stinks with the box. I'm constantly sweeping or vacuuming litter that gets tracked around. He's hardly ever getting out that I can tell. We're about a month into this and his behavior is basically no different now than it was fifteen minutes after he came into the house.
I really don't understand why people want to keep the hole available for him.
He's not using it as a "safe space" in a crisis. Best I can tell, he's rarely coming out of it, even when I'm not there. Keep in mind I have not seen him since two weeks ago this past Monday. This is his full time spot. He'll likely eventually outgrow the opening. If he was out in the house more and seemed more engaged, then ran in the hole to avoid me, I wouldn't be so discouraged.
Yes is is, because he is constantly in crisis. Stop making comparisons to other cats, he isn't other cats. And he IS in crisis. I do not believe you have the patience to take on this cat. There is no shame in that, but he needs help you cannot give. Contact some shelters and rescues, REAL ones, not the place you got him from, and get him into a safe place where he can be helped..
Incidentally the litter box should not "stink" if you are keeping it clean. Unless you are talking about male tom cat pee. And there is no getting rid of that odor except by neutering.
Yes is is, because he is constantly in crisis. Stop making comparisons to other cats, he isn't other cats. And he IS in crisis. I do not believe you have the patience to take on this cat. There is no shame in that, but he needs help you cannot give. Contact some shelters and rescues, REAL ones, not the place you got him from, and get him into a safe place where he can be helped..
Incidentally the litter box should not "stink" if you are keeping it clean. Unless you are talking about male tom cat pee. And there is no getting rid of that odor except by neutering.
Agreed. The OP has gotten the advice he needs. It's up to him now to decide in which direction he wants to go. Either be patient and kind and allow the cat to adjust on the cat's terms for as long as it takes or find a real legitimate rescue where the cat will get the help it needs and eventually find a loving home.
To not allow the cat to hide where he feels safe will do nothing but further traumatize him and will make him even more distrusting and scared. Doing negative things to him like blocking off his safe space whatever it is, is going in the wrong direction. At some point, doing this becomes inhumane.
Please. Take the cat back, or better yet, do as catsmom suggests. Today, before he becomes so damaged by this situation he'll never be able to live happily with people.
Please. Take the cat back, or better yet, do as catsmom suggests. Today, before he becomes so damaged by this situation he'll never be able to live happily with people.
I didn't post pictures of the damage he did to my hands a couple of weeks ago. He clawed under my nail on my pointer finger and part of that nail was barely hanging on. I finally pulled that off and it's just now above the quick.
I had a big gash on my thumb that is just closing up. The first couple of days were bad and my fingers hurt badly when I typed. I have never seen a cat fight like that for something fairly innocent, but then again, most of my other cats have been raised by me or had obvious socialization. The only one I can remember that was feral wasn't even weaned yet, and it was much easier to socialize a young kitten than a six month old cat.
This cat, and most of the other cats at the event, supposedly came from an apartment complex rescue. My guess is that they were all outdoor cats - some may have been somewhat socialized, but it's clear this one wasn't.
Next Monday will be a month. While he is doing better and playing some, I would never have adopted him had I known he was going to hide in a hole for weeks on end. It's easy to forget that he's there, and honestly, it's impossible to really bond with an animal you almost never see, much less interact with. I don't want anything bad to happen to him and am doing what I can to help him, but there's no bond there yet.
We adopted two cats, Molly and River, from a shelter about four years ago. Molly was quite social and no problem. River was scared, at the shelter she spent all her time hidden away sleeping. Little did we know she had three different parasites including round worm and lung flukes.
River would stay hidden. It took weeks and weeks, five times a day, of me jiggling a kitty fishing pole at her before she came out, and then very tentatively. She has slowly slowly slowly acclimated to socializing. She used to eat in "her" room aka the living room. Now she usually comes out to the kitchen at chow time. She'll associate with the other three cats and if you don't watch out she'll zip in silently and gobble their leftovers. No problem with that, you snooze you loose. Now we have two patting sessions a day, I'll sit on a love seat and she almost always comes out and comes up next to me and I'll pat her for 10-20 minutes. Twenty minutes seems to be about her limit. But she's come a long way, and she's a sweet sweet kitty.
One reason we adopted Molly and River was they were the two least likely to be adopted cats at the shelter. It's taken a ton of time, never mind the peeing and pooping issues I've chronicled elsewhere at CD, but we're glad to have been able to give them a secure and loving home for their later years.
Molly and River don't have the same issues your little cat shows. But if you're willing to continue to supply patience and understanding, you'll quite likely be well rewarded when Kitty finally comes in from the cold.
We adopted two cats, Molly and River, from a shelter about four years ago. Molly was quite social and no problem. River was scared, at the shelter she spent all her time hidden away sleeping. Little did we know she had three different parasites including round worm and lung flukes.
River would stay hidden. It took weeks and weeks, five times a day, of me jiggling a kitty fishing pole at her before she came out, and then very tentatively. She has slowly slowly slowly acclimated to socializing. She used to eat in "her" room aka the living room. Now she usually comes out to the kitchen at chow time. She'll associate with the other three cats and if you don't watch out she'll zip in silently and gobble their leftovers. No problem with that, you snooze you loose. Now we have two patting sessions a day, I'll sit on a love seat and she almost always comes out and comes up next to me and I'll pat her for 10-20 minutes. Twenty minutes seems to be about her limit. But she's come a long way, and she's a sweet sweet kitty.
One reason we adopted Molly and River was they were the two least likely to be adopted cats at the shelter. It's taken a ton of time, never mind the peeing and pooping issues I've chronicled elsewhere at CD, but we're glad to have been able to give them a secure and loving home for their later years.
Molly and River don't have the same issues your little cat shows. But if you're willing to continue to supply patience and understanding, you'll quite likely be well rewarded when Kitty finally comes in from the cold.
He did come out sometime yesterday and took apart a Christmas wreath I had on the dining table. He only removed certain pieces, and he had to have been at it awhile. I also heard with some toys in his hole.
I got him catnip today and I'm going to put some in a sock in the kitchen - hopefully that might get him moving some.
I'm planning on taking Friday off and see if the vet can get him neutered then. I bought an animal trap and some canned tuna today too. That will be some time to seal the holes permanently. As long as he has these holes, I don't think we'll see any progress.
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