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Old 10-23-2020, 01:22 PM
 
2,331 posts, read 1,995,260 times
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Earlier this year we lost our last cat, so about 2-3 months back we adopted two neutered young male siblings. About a year old, they were put in to the rescue as bonded. And, for the first couple of months, they were BFF. They were neutered a bit later than usual, probably due to covid, but no marking or spraying behavior.

Until about a week ago. One day the two of them got into it. Ok, I think, no problem, happens in the best of families. Except one thing bothered me about it. Both were acting kinda, ahem, temperamental, but one of the boys was acting more fear-aggressive. Ran and hid in a corner, still moaning a low cat moan of stress. So I went to make sure he was ok. Normally, even upset, he would allow me to pick him up. Not this time - he even got aggressive with me. Let's call this boy Murph. So I let Murph be so he could calm down.

The other boy is Catsby. It seemed to me he was a bit more the aggressor at this point. Catsby was the one doing a bit more pursuing, and Murph was the one who was angrier, but defensive.

That all blows over. I'm thinking it started over food aggression. We can't leave food out for them - the dogs steal it. I've got kinda good compliance from the dogs about not stealing - but it is much easier to not tempt them.

A couple of days later - same sort of scenario. Both cats are mightily upset, confrontation ensues, I have to jump in to avoid somebody getting hurt. Murph retreats to a neutral corner, but then comes back out as the stalker looking for Catsby. I shoo the both of them, and it blows over.

A day later, it happens again, in the evening, when DW is here. She'd been dissing my description of the aggro, btw. Now it happens on her watch. I am still not overly concerned, thinking it is food aggression. In addition to not leaving food out, she has been limiting what she feeds them to avoid them going overweight. However, we'd been seeing signs of hunger for a while, so I was usually giving them an extra daytime snack when DW was away.

Next day, mid-morning, I'm home. The boys get into it, and it's pretty serious. I bound upstairs and break it up, and give them a few to calm down, then set out food, and feed them until they eat no more. I'm still thinking it was about the food. They were calm after that. For a couple of hours, then it blows up again.

I still think it was originally about the food, but it's something else now. Got the vet on the phone to discuss. Phone diagnosis agrees with my observation - behavioral. Hasn't been time to get in to the vet for a physical. Solution - temp - for now - keep one cat downstairs - and one up - with a door between them.

Murph remains upset and yowling and groaning and moaning like a female in heat. Initially he stayed upstairs, but I've caught him coming to the door a few times, and threatening Catsby when Catsby comes by. (The door has louvres, they can smell each other and have very limited view of the other.)
Murph yowled for hours yesterday.

Part of the being upset is actually separation anxiety, I think. Neither one has ever been alone before, other than very briefly. Nor have they been without the other. I say this in part because, when I go upstairs, Murph is quiet. However, last night while DW was home (and she is their primary caretaker), he was mostly calmer, but not calm. Would not relax, and got up a few times in the night to moan and groan (cat talk for looking for a fight). So, the separation anxiety is only one other factor that might be contributory.

As I write this, I've called the vet for a physical for Murph, since he is the one who will not relax. DW went out last night and got one of those pheromone burners you plug in. But 1st opening at vet is over a week away.

Murph is entirely responsive and appears to be "all there and present" when he's like this. Catsby seems to be the calm one atm - even though I thought he was more the dominant of the two before. So I'm not thinking fits. Catsby, fwiw, spent the whole of last night alone downstairs, and never peeped, even when Murph got breakfast this AM before I could get downstairs with breakfast for Catsby.

There are a couple of things here that have been a surprise. One is the suddenness of all this. They went from playing together, for hours, multiple times a day, to literally at each other's throats. The 2nd is the depth and tenacity of Murph's anger.

Obviously, time will tell. We'll keep them separated, since Murph seems to be holding his grudge. Unfortunately for Catsby, all the cat toys are upstairs. Downstairs is a space with lots of STUFF, and any toys would quickly be lost forever. Maybe I'll see if I can hang some stuff from the ceiling.

So, cat folks, it has literally been a decade since we've had juvenile male cats. And never had behavior issues like this. This behavior is a mystery, given their former BFF status. Comments? Thoughts? Anything I'm missing?
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Old 10-24-2020, 07:42 AM
 
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What's their diet? How often are they fed?



How many litter boxes do you have? How much elevated space, how many scratching posts and cat beds?
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Old 10-24-2020, 02:16 PM
 
2,331 posts, read 1,995,260 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by catsmom21 View Post
What's their diet? How often are they fed?

How many litter boxes do you have? How much elevated space, how many scratching posts and cat beds?
Diet: pretty standard commercial wet, 2x daily (PurinaOne and Iams), some kibble (Rachel Ray's?),
2 scratch boxes - and LOTS of carpet they like to scratch on. Toys everywhere underfoot. Beds for an army, no shortage there. The only places verbotten for the cats are kitchen counters and dining tables.
Had one litter box - now have two - upstairs/downstairs. Places aplenty for sitting in windows or hiding behind bookshelves.

Update on the original events. I didn't think so much of it, but DW pointed out the coincidence: day before the initial big blowup we had electricians downstairs installing a new breaker panel - took most of the day. Both the boys went and found safe corners or underbeds to hide. Every time the electricians had to hammer or drill, the dogs set to on alert chorus - noisy as all get out until I shushed them. The next day was the big initial blowup. And then we had a tree crew over taking out a big old pine. So some rather large environmental stressors.

So vet tech pointed out it could be displaced aggression - Murph is stressed - so he lets it out on his bro, or whatever. Could be. I've never seen the like, but could be.

Catsby is now the calmer one. Murph was acting more normal today, and both acting like they missed the other. So I let Catsby wander upstairs. Nope - that was quite apparently a nogo within a few seconds. Murph started in right away stalking and hostile. Catsby backed downstairs - so I walked him back down and closed the door. And Murph stayed stressed for hours.

Thing is, this is one of the odd things about Murph's anger - he's MOST hostile towards Cats, but when he gets that way he starts hissing and being hostile in general - towards the dogs, etc. Like the first day, when I pushed it a little bit, fully expecting to be able to calm him, and he got all hostile to me. We used to do TNR in central CA, and I've seen plenty of fear and hostility, but this was odd. The fear or hostility is usually directed towards the apparent cause of distress or pain. But Murph's pattern seems to be hitting out in all directions.

BTW, FWIW, they've had multiple dogs and other cats in their life since they were weaned. It's not like they've been sheltered from that sort of thing and just now experiencing a broader world.

We'll continue to keep them separated, and try some slow reintroductions over time - just as if they were strangers.
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Old 11-01-2020, 05:46 AM
 
2,331 posts, read 1,995,260 times
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Update: offering an update - as the situation has changed - again! For the better.

So, we have an upstairs/downstairs house. I leaned a louvered door into the doorway at the bottom of the stairs so one cat could be segregated downstairs, but they could be fed on either side of the louvred door - thus each knowing the other was there.

Catsby tried to sneak past the door a few times. Murph would be hissing at the top of the stairs, and Cats would retreat, and self-segregate. But he'd been getting a bit more clever than I would like - pulling at the bottom of the door, and managing to pull the bottom outwards enough to create an opening he could sneak through. I put a gallon of paint in the way of the door - and yesterday he STILL managed to pull the door out enough to sneak upstairs at their breakfast time. Strong boy!

DW was just getting their food ready, so she put both dishes down, about 6 feet apart, and let them eat. Then followed them around for the next two hours, observing for any hostile behavior. There were a few instances where one or the other appeared suspicious of the other, but each event was easily enough distracted. At the end of the day, they were almost back to their old BFF status. They played together - for hours.

Into day 2 of the recovery, and all seems well. The doorway is open, and morning play proceeded as before. Relatively normal. Just one of those things, I guess.
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