Windows Phone 8.1

[MountainBiking]

Originally Posted by Peregrine

I think you are way too optimisitc, my friend. What manufacturers are picking up WIndows 10?
I wanted MS to be the 3rd player in this but I think they've failed at this point and they have no chance anymore.

Optimistic? Everything I mentioned in my post above is a fact. Not opinion. 2016 is a "retrenching" period for Windows mobile per Microsoft's CEO Satya Nadella. W10 mobile was not good enough/ready when it rolled out in 2015. Only a few W10 Lumia phones were made for the entire world for 2015/2016: 550, 650, 950 and 950XL. The Lumia line has now been retired. No more. MS did not market any of these four phones AT ALL. If you review smartphone sales on a global basis for 2016 you will see that Windows phones are doing very poorly and their market share declined. I wonder why?? Let me see. Only 4 phones. No marketing. Hmmm.

Optimistic would be if MS had a goal of selling enough phones to take a 15% to 20% market share globally by the end of 2017. Microsoft at best will be in third place and that's perfectly OK. MS cannot and will not go head to head with iOS and/or Android. That race is over. Since you doubt me here's a list of OEMs that I know of, my friend:

Lenovo
Blu
HP *
WhartonBrooks *
K Touch
One Plus
Alcatel
Vaio
Xiaomi
Coship
Cube
*aimed at enterprise


Microsoft is doing the right thing by getting out of the hardware business and leaving that up to partners. MS will probably only build a few phones in the flagship level (Surface phone??).

Windows 10 is far from a failure. 350 million downloads on a global basis in a little over a year is not a failure. MS had a goal of 1 billion W10 downloads by 2018 but recently retracted from that goal. Mid 2019 to early 2020 is more likely. Anyways, I love my W10 phone and ATT just rolled out the anniversary update. The update brought some cool features! Like I said, my second pick would be Apple. Android is a hacking magnet but Samsung has some really nice phones.

-Cheers.

Originally Posted by Peregrine

I think you are way too optimisitc, my friend. What manufacturers are picking up WIndows 10?
I wanted MS to be the 3rd player in this but I think they've failed at this point and they have no chance anymore.

Sadly, very few, and mostly only extremely low end devices.

You might be able to install W10 on some Android devices but that's not going to actually gain them any significant market share.

It's a shame because Microsoft's mobile platform is actually quite good and UWP is pretty neat. Continuum is a nice idea but of limited utility if you can't run all your existing apps.

Microsoft needs a strong argument for why third parties should bother with Windows 10 phones, especially after so many companies invested in developing Win8 devices that never sold well.

Originally Posted by MountainBiking

Android is too saturated with Samsung being King.

The solution to that does not come from spending money developing devices that even fewer people are interested in.

[Peregrine]

Originally Posted by MountainBiking

Optimistic? Everything I mentioned in my post above is a fact. Not opinion.

Read your post again. It doesn't come across as being optimistic about the future of Windows MOBILE? Really? You don't see it? It has zero to do with your facts or figures.

2016 is a "retrenching" period for Windows mobile per Microsoft's CEO Satya Nadella. W10 mobile was not good enough/ready when it rolled out in 2015.

I actually disagree there. It was quite good. No one wanted it, though. *Fact.

Only a few W10 Lumia phones were made for the entire world for 2015/2016: 550, 650, 950 and 950XL.

#Fail

The Lumia line has now been retired. No more. MS did not market any of these four phones AT ALL. If you review smartphone sales on a global basis for 2016 you will see that Windows phones are doing very poorly and their market share declined. I wonder why?? Let me see. Only 4 phones. No marketing. Hmmm.

No argument.

Optimistic would be if MS had a goal of selling enough phones to take a 15% to 20% market share globally by the end of 2017.

I wasn't talking about MS being optimistic. I was talking about YOU.

Since you doubt me here's a list of OEMs that I know of, my friend:

Lenovo
Blu
HP *
WhartonBrooks *
K Touch
One Plus
Alcatel
Vaio
Xiaomi
Coship
Cube
*aimed at enterprise

These people are making Windows Phones? Really? Now that IS news to me.

MS will probably only build a few phones in the flagship level (Surface phone??).

A rose by any other name...

Windows 10 is far from a failure.

Nor did I say it was, or even imply that. We are talking about WINDOWS PHONES. Not Windows 10.

-Cheers.

Right back atcha. As I said: I am a MS FAN. I want them to succeed. I considered a Win Phone... just couldn't live in that Walled Garden again after being an Android guy for so long.

MS Phone is doomed. MS needs to just quit and get out already.

[5Lakes]

I had a Lumia 640 Windows phone for a while (well I still have it as a spare actually). Bought it as 8.1 and then upgraded to 10 under Windows Insider (10 is much better). I currently have a Nexus phone and the wife has an iphone.

I thought that my Windows phone was great! I bought the 640 for $100 and I think you can even get it for $30 now. You can't get a better phone for the price than that! I think the Windows phone ecosystem and layout are superior to other smartphones, and it just looks better and is more intuitive overall. It's customizable but not too much like Android can be where it can get sloppy. It also has the best phone keyboard by far and I think Outlook on 10 is the best email app. Cortana is also better than Siri or Google Now.

However, it seems like Microsoft has dropped the ball with Windows phone or just does not care. It's not well supported in terms of software updates or hardware. The lack of apps is also a big deal to many people, which seems to be a chicken & egg scenario in terms of developers offering apps. I will say that most of the core apps that people use are available, but random specialty apps are often not. In some cases there are Windows phone apps that are even really great. I think the only core app that I really missed was Google Maps, but on Windows 10 the native Maps app comes close and will also let you save offline maps.

I hope Windows phone does emerge as a viable option down the road. I would go back if I felt that it was better supported. I also think three consumer options is better than two any day.

[Peregrine]

Don't agree with much of that, but I just want to comment on one thing: keyboards. I think Apple has the best onscreen keyboard by a huge margin. And I really have no idea why. I just NEVER have typos when using an iPhone keyboard. They really nailed it.

[5Lakes]

Originally Posted by Peregrine

Don't agree with much of that, but I just want to comment on one thing: keyboards. I think Apple has the best onscreen keyboard by a huge margin. And I really have no idea why. I just NEVER have typos when using an iPhone keyboard. They really nailed it.

What don't you agree with? Have you ever had a Windows 10 phone? It has the best keyboard by far IMO. I'm not talking about the 8.1 version or the Microsoft keyboard for iphone (they're not nearly as good as the 10 version).

[Peregrine]

No, I've never owned one myself, but we have one employee that has one. He's getting the Note 7 to replace it.

I don't think the ecosystem and layout are better. I think it's worse, actually. I think it looks worse and isn't any more intuitive then iPhone or Android. I don't think Android is sloppy at all and Windows is not very customizable at all. O look you can change the color and size of the tiles! Blech. I hate the tiles. O look, you can put your wallpaper behind the tiles! But then you can't actually SEE it.

Outlook is good, agree. It's pretty good on Android though missing a key feature that makes it worthless (no contacts/dialer integration).

As for apps, that's never really mattered to me. I could live in the Windows app world if I had to. I never understood people whining for example that there was no FB app on WinMoby... so? It's a damn computer! Just go to www.facebook.com. lol
(Google Maps does offline, too)

I love the idea of continuim.

I hope Windows phone does emerge as a viable option down the road. I would go back if I felt that it was better supported. I also think three consumer options is better than two any day.

I really wanted Windows to make it. I did. I hate only having 2 major players. I've completely given up on that now (if you couldn't tell).

[5Lakes]

Originally Posted by Peregrine

No, I've never owned one myself, but we have one employee that has one. He's getting the Note 7 to replace it.

I have used all three as a daily phone. Does your employee have 10 or 8.1? Version 8.1 does still lack many key features.

Originally Posted by Peregrine

I don't think the ecosystem and layout are better. I think it's worse, actually. I think it looks worse and isn't any more intuitive then iPhone or Android. I don't think Android is sloppy at all and Windows is not very customizable at all. O look you can change the color and size of the tiles! Blech. I hate the tiles. O look, you can put your wallpaper behind the tiles! But then you can't actually SEE it.

Well this will of course be a matter of personal opinion. I kind of think Android and iphone have a primitive look and it seems like it takes more steps to get places. The tiles can also be reshaped or made transparent, and tend to show better info than widgets. I'm not sure what you mean about the wallpaper not showing. You can set it up with no or few tiles, or you can make the tiles small and clear. It's much better for wallpaper than Android IMO. Windows phone also has a glance screen option which is great.

Also I did not say that Android is necessarily sloppy, but it can be with all the modifications that it allows and other bloatware. I bought a Nexus phone to avoid this and get quick updates.

Originally Posted by Peregrine

Outlook is good, agree. It's pretty good on Android though missing a key feature that makes it worthless (no contacts/dialer integration).

Actually I think Outlook on Android is poor and I don't use it on my current phone because of those issues. It's much better on Windows Phone and does not have the issues that you refer to.

Originally Posted by Peregrine

As for apps, that's never really mattered to me. I could live in the Windows app world if I had to. I never understood people whining for example that there was no FB app on WinMoby... so? It's a damn computer! Just go to www.facebook.com. lol
(Google Maps does offline, too)

There is a Facebook app for Windows phone.

Google maps offline is poor compared to the Windows phone Maps offline (although I prefer Google maps overall). Windows maps allows you to download complete regions instead of saving area snapshots.

Originally Posted by Peregrine

I really wanted Windows to make it. I did. I hate only having 2 major players. I've completely given up on that now (if you couldn't tell).

I tend to agree they won't make it. They're too far behind and I think the only way would be universal apps. Obviously there are reasons I currently use an Android, but I hope they surprise me.

[Peregrine]

Originally Posted by 5Lakes

There is a Facebook app for Windows phone.

I know, I was just using FB as an example.

Google maps offline is poor compared to the Windows phone Maps offline (although I prefer Google maps overall). Windows maps allows you to download complete regions instead of saving area snapshots.

Google allows you to download: As much or as little as you want. Hell I could download North America if have enough space on my phone.

I'm a pretty huge Google Maps fan. No one comes close IMO.