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Yes, they want the SAME tax breaks. In fact the plant is smaller and will hire FAR less people but they get same breaks. Stupid chris. This company just wants taxpayer money and a writeoff.
Chris, you need to chill out. You obviously dont know what you are talking about, or do know this is BS but are supporting this blindly out of loyalty to CHarleston. Several people have mentioned why this move makes no sense and how it is being done for government subisides.
I realize you want this to work Chris. That doesnt change the fact the state is paying millions to subisidize a plant that is going to fail because it makes no business sense. I would support this plant if it was public, but I will not support CORRUPTION.
Im sorry people, but YOU are wrong, and wishful thinking wont change the reality of this scam run by this company and the state government.
For one, you haven't yet proven any corruption. You used an article that is talking about the tax break they were going to give Shell if they decided to move into WV, but they didn't. And even if the Charleston company building the craker wants the same tax break, you haven't shown us any sign of evidence proving it! The only reason you are even commenting on this is because of your hate for any progress anywhere but in Morgantown. If this plant was recieving a tax break in Morgantown it would be perfectly alright! In fact, it is alright because every state in the country would do the same thing, its part of how commerce works!
You have done nothing but posted untruthful trash, and unless you can back it up I suggest you stay off of a thread that is obviously out of your knowledge range. You should be happy that a WV company wants to build a plant, after hearing the PA was chosen over WV for the Shell plant.
So again, if all your going to do is pull crap from thin-air (aka your brain) then stay out of the conversation because every person on here agrees that you don't know what you are talking about!
CT, thanks with regards to the Mrs. I hope you and your's are enjoying retirement in Morgantown. Next time I'm up that way lets grab a bite and a brew.
I agree that the trolling is getting pretty bad again on this forum. I don't agree with the slang term used to name Morgantown earlier. I especially hate to hear it in conversation with people who are from this state. There are also negative names about other cities in this state as well. And they mostly generate from folks located in opposite corners of the state. It's like we are so territorial that we sometimes forget we are eating our own.
CT, thanks with regards to the Mrs. I hope you and your's are enjoying retirement in Morgantown. Next time I'm up that way lets grab a bite and a brew.
I agree that the trolling is getting pretty bad again on this forum. I don't agree with the slang term used to name Morgantown earlier. I especially hate to hear it in conversation with people who are from this state. There are also negative names about other cities in this state as well. And they mostly generate from folks located in opposite corners of the state. It's like we are so territorial that we sometimes forget we are eating our own.
Eating our own is basically a state tradition. I have my own theory about why that happens, but no proof to back it up. I believe it is deeply rooted in the tribalistic character of the Scots Irish who are to be found all over the state (I happen to come largely from that stock), but are much more pronounced south of Sutton. Historically, those folks didn't care much for the people on the next hill, let alone those from a different county. The northern part of the state is much more German ethnic oriented, and far less tribalistic. It is that tribalism that is a huge cause of our state's failure to progress along with everyone else, and the reason we always seem to be fighting it out with Mississippi to see who gets to be in last place.
As you know from your recent visit here, we have a very livable city now here with lots of amenities. That has absolutely nothing to do with any place else in the state, and the fact that our progress causes resentment and jealousy elsewhere rather than a sense of pride is very perplexing. You probably don't have a feel for the sense of estrangement folks in the northern and eastern areas have from state government because you aren't from those areas. Charleston is, in many ways, a dirty word in those parts. Not because of anything to do with the city per se, but because folks do not believe state government either truly represents them, or has their best interests at heart. Part of the problem lies in the fact that most of these areas have very large portions of their population bases located outside the state's boundaries, while South Central WV lies entirely within the state's borders leading to an exagerated political power base. Changing demographics do offer some hope of also changing that dynamic.
Morgantown is a terrific place to retire. We do have our issues with traffic and congestion, and this time of year with cold weather, but on balance this place offers great bang for the buck in terms of amenities and health care for seniors. The cold weather part can be handled by having the now very inexpensive to buy vacation condo on the Gulf coast.
I believe the logic used by those proposing the small cracker in Kanawha is there is a lot of abandoned infrastructure available at a former plant there. That could be true.
That said, the Charleston area is comparitively isolated. Saying there are somehow 600,000 people in an area that stretches from Pond Gap and Montgomery, WV (50 miles East of Charleston) to Greenup, KY and Ironton, OH and that makes for an urban center covering an east-west distance of 120 miles? Well, that many people barely make up 1/4 the total population of our small state. That's pretty sparce population.
Within just 60 miles of any Northern Panhandle area are well over 2 million people. That's a population density of 400% that of the combined area you're mentioning in an area half the geographic size, Steve. And, the wet gas supplies are not located near Kanawha.
From most logical points of view, that is not a logical place for a cracker. Will one be built there? If state government has anything to say about it, yep. Will it be competitive? Depends on the alternatives available. If somebody builds one on either side of the Ohio in the Northern Panhandle area it will be in for an upstream battle, because that plant would cut it right off at the pass from significant population areas.
I know the ego of the people in this area, Charleston-Huntingon, tells them it is a HUGE metropolis, but in reality they are a very small fish in a very big pond.
CT and cry, you two are wrong on so many levels its not even funny. If you seriously think there is govt corruption over this small cracker plant going in Charleston then take it up with your own corrupt local elected officials representing you in legislature instead of spreading these outlandish theories that nobody is subscribing to.
There are going to be cracker plants built in your part of the state, why wouldn't it make sense to build one to service this region as well?
Another thing that you guys are ignoring is that they are getting donations and grant money to build this cracker in Kanawha County from private sources located all over the ncwv and norther panhandle. Maybe you should go comain to them as well?! Again, when you come up with a half billion dollars, then you can build wherever you want and the rest of us here will just have to accept it.
We are right on so many levels. EVERYONE knows this is corruption except for 3-4 posters on this board who are city boosters with no objectivity. Like I said I dont oppose this plant, I oppose the whole state supporting a plant that is a handout that is doomed to fail. Nobody is going to go out of there to go to a Cracker in the middle of nowhere far from the shale, when there are ones closer to both the shale and the markets.
Yes, I am sure the cracker plant is taking Government grant money, but this just strengthens my point. This is not free market, nor is it socialism. It is a bastard hybrid where the government and the people of WV cover the expenses while the profits go to a few people. The owners pay nothing since they are subisidzied make a little money, and when it fails get a tax writeoff. Who bears the cost? The people of WV.
Another example of CT going anti-Charleston - despite his denials - he just can''t get over that Morgantown is still, despite his greatest denials, still Morganhole- a college town run by drunk students partying all over and slum lords who still rent falling down fire-traps to students.
This has nothing to do with Morgantown. People in this forum need to stop making every issue Morgantown vs Charleston.
THe issue is how the state is subsidizing corporate welfare and welfare in Charleston for bad enterprises.
CT, your mileage is way off here. Pond Gap and Montgomery are both about 30 miles max from Charleston not nearly 50 miles away. Either way, I wasn't aware that there was some sort of population pre-requisite to determine where a cracker plant is built. Are people in the northern part of WV still upset that they chose to build the cracker in Monaca, PA and not in their backyard?
No, we are upset the state is getting taxpayers to pay for a corrupt scan and ensuring the industry goes to PA. The CHarleston-Huntington area is a huge landarea with few people. It is a small minnow in an ocean full of big fish. I dont care if the plant is not built in Morgantown, I feel Morgantown is actually not a good location for one, but neither is Charleston. Again I have no problem with private business funding a doomed plant, but I have a big problem when the taxpayers have to fund it.
CT, the only reason population was brought up in this thread was because "guess who" decided to say that Charleston is too small and isolated to get a cracker plant. But apparently now, according to what you are saying, is that a cracker needs to be built in a remote area, yet still close to the raw material. Maybe you and cry need to talk because those are stark opposite opinions, and if you two are supposed to be on the same team ganging up on the southern wv posters you two will need to keep your story straight, lol.
You know I'm just kidding with ya pal.
First off we are not ganging up on southern WV posters, they are ganging up on us for daring to state a truth they dont like. Nor or we the only posters who find this plant stupid. EVERYONE that is objective knows this plant is stupid. The reason it is stupid is because Charleston is far from the shale, and in the middle of nowhere.
I never said the plant has to be in a remote area. It has to be in a smart area. Near the shale, and near the markets. It can be in Huntington or in the middle of a farm, as long as it is in a strategic location to take advantage of the market, which Charleston isnt.
I realize you people dont like to hear an unpopular truth. You would rather bury your heads in ignorance and pretend everything is ok, but this is not healthy.
For one, you haven't yet proven any corruption. You used an article that is talking about the tax break they were going to give Shell if they decided to move into WV, but they didn't. And even if the Charleston company building the craker wants the same tax break, you haven't shown us any sign of evidence proving it! The only reason you are even commenting on this is because of your hate for any progress anywhere but in Morgantown. If this plant was recieving a tax break in Morgantown it would be perfectly alright! In fact, it is alright because every state in the country would do the same thing, its part of how commerce works!
You have done nothing but posted untruthful trash, and unless you can back it up I suggest you stay off of a thread that is obviously out of your knowledge range. You should be happy that a WV company wants to build a plant, after hearing the PA was chosen over WV for the Shell plant.
So again, if all your going to do is pull crap from thin-air (aka your brain) then stay out of the conversation because every person on here agrees that you don't know what you are talking about!
It has already been shown they want the same tax breaks. Another poster and myself discussed this earlier. The taxbreaks and subisidies are most likely 100% or more of the cost of the plant. Like I said the state is picking up the bill, and by state I mean the people of WV. The profits wont go to them though. The worst part is the stupid location of this cracker will ensure it will quickly fail and the company will get a nice tax writeoff. So you see Chris a great scam they got going. They dont pay for anything, get some small profit, and a big tax writeoff. Likewise Charleston is happy since they get a short term construction project and a year or two of state funded corporate welfare to support it. The policitians are happy because they get their kickbacks. Everyone wins except WV and its peop;e.
Chris, I love Charleston and want it to develope, but kleptocracy, corruption, and corporate welfare is not progress. This type of thing is the reason your city has greatly declined and continuing to embrace these things will ensure the decline continues. I am fighting for the progress of Charleston. I realize so are you, but you have been manipulated by liars and thieves who have gotten you to betray your city while you think you are helping it. You know I dont support corruption Chris, regardless of where it is even Morgantown, so stop making this a Morgantown vs Charleston issue.
I would be happy a WV company was building a plant in WV if the state government and taxpayer money was not involved. As it is a WV company is NOT spending money in WV, the taxpayers are, and the benefits are going to go to a few people and their offshore back accounts.
No, we are upset the state is getting taxpayers to pay for a corrupt scan and ensuring the industry goes to PA. The CHarleston-Huntington area is a huge landarea with few people. It is a small minnow in an ocean full of big fish. I dont care if the plant is not built in Morgantown, I feel Morgantown is actually not a good location for one, but neither is Charleston. Again I have no problem with private business funding a doomed plant, but I have a big problem when the taxpayers have to fund it.
What is with the 'we?'..you don't even live in West Virginia anymore! Or at least you claim to not live there. I like to check in a lot on my home state in this forum and post frequently but at the same time I know that I no longer live there (haven't for 8 going on 9 years) so I don't use terminology that makes it sound like I am directly impacted. I am not. You aren't either assuming that you actually don't live in the state.
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