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This would be an alternative universe for almost all US cities not in the sunbelt. Even places like Atlanta got hammered by population loss in it’s city-limits.
That would be true of a lot of larger, urban cities. But a lot of smaller to mid size cities have done well, outside the sunbelt. Last 3 Midwest cities I have lived in (Springfield MO, Lincoln NE and Sioux Falls SD) have all grown steadily. Right now, all are in the 170k - 300k size. Lincoln and Sioux Falls have grown pretty fast recently. But it's also easier to grow when the town is not hemmed in, surrounded primarily by farmland instead.
I lived in the far northern suburbs of Chicago my 2nd job out of school. Chicago is one of those cities that's been shrinking more often than not for decades.
I've heard many of those plans over the years, and pretty much everything in Charleston falls through at some point. It was a miracle that the Civic Center and library renovations actually came to fruition, but those are both public projects.
You mentioned a connector road between Sissonville and Cross Lanes. I've always thought that it made too much sense, and would be a natural catalyst for growth. With the elimination of the inventory tax, Charleston is a logical location for distribution centers. A connector road there would open up land that is much easier to develop due to the mild nature of the terrain in that part of the county. There's 3 interstates, plus US 119 and 35, that spread our in every direction. Charleston is within 3-4 hours of Cincinnati, Lexington, Columbus, Cleveland, Pittsburgh, and not much further to Charlotte. I believe that this was a missed opportunity for the region.
Don't give up! I've been to Charleston on business, and think it's way underrated as a place to visit, work, and live! For many years, I also had the same frustration about my hometown of Columbus, GA not being forward-thinking, and not willing to invest in its depressing downtown. Thankfully, Columbus turned itself around over the last 15 years or so, and is a great example of what can be done DESPITE not even having main interstate access (just a spur off of I-85). The city is about the same population (206,000) as Charleston's metro population of 208,000. Columbus has almost no skyline to speak of, whereas Charleston's skyline is pretty impressive to me. Columbus is the home of Ft. Benning, and the world headquarters of Aflac Insurance, Synovus Banks, Total System Services (Global Payments), Salt Life, and Charbroil/Masterbuilt Grills. The city has invested heavily in its downtown, now generally referred to as UpTown, and has become somewhat of a tourist attraction. Columbus is also listed in the current March 2022 issue of Southern Living as a great place to retire. www.alwaysuptown.com
Last edited by columbusboy8; 03-10-2022 at 10:28 PM..
Don't give up! I've been to Charleston on business, and think it's way underrated as a place to visit, work, and live! For many years, I also had the same frustration about my hometown of Columbus, GA not being forward-thinking, and not willing to invest in its depressing downtown. Thankfully, Columbus turned itself around over the last 15 years or so, and is a great example of what can be done DESPITE not even having main interstate access (just a spur off of I-85). The city is about the same population (206,000) as Charleston's metro population of 208,000. Columbus has almost no skyline to speak of, whereas Charleston's skyline is pretty impressive to me. Columbus is the home of Ft. Benning, and the world headquarters of Aflac Insurance, Synovus Banks, Total System Services (Global Payments), Salt Life, and Charbroil/Masterbuilt Grills. The city has invested heavily in its downtown, now generally referred to as UpTown, and has become somewhat of a tourist attraction. Columbus is also listed in the current March 2022 issue of Southern Living as a great place to retire. www.alwaysuptown.com
I've only passed through Columbus, GA on road trips, but never did a proper stop in that city. Anyway when I've street viewed Columbus, I think that city is doing a good job of trying to stay relevant as a city. I am hopeful that one day, Charleston could stop it's population decline, and even get back to at least 0-1% population growth. Where the population level would at least stabilize at a certain level, even if it didn't have fast population growth.
Quote:
Originally Posted by NOVAmtneer82
Town Center started to lose stores slowly a few years ago but that turned into a mass exodus. There's pretty much nothing of value left in that mall anymore- the few remaining decent ones should hedge their losses and follow Buckle to Southridge or try to get something on Capitol Street. If JC Penney was smart they'd either try to move to the old Stone & Thomas on Capitol Street or go to Southridge or the new Park Place development in South Charleston.
Your last sentence is only partially correct- Malls in overbuilt or economically depressed markets in the US are struggling- well run malls in thriving areas might lose a store or two (including an anchor) here and there but are easily able to refill the space with something different or tear down and do more mixed use. Charleston's persistent population decline and the presence of other shopping areas like Southridge makes this difficult - add in so many people moved out to the Teays Valley area where they can drive to the Huntington Mall in Barboursville (although that mall isn't that great either- one should probably just keep driving to Lexington or Columbus if they want a larger collection of nice retail options) versus the Town Center. Huntington Mall does at least still have a Macys- for now.
Macy's seems to have this long term pattern, of slowly closing down stores in smaller city malls. If you look up this list on the layoff.com , you will find this article(called the neighborhood store list, long story short this leaked list is made up of about 60-70 stores with the lowest store sales for Macy's) someone who posts on that message board for Macy's, posted in the past. It is this message board thread where it was mentioned, btw: https://www.thelayoff.com/t/13uNHKB9 . Btw if you don't already subscribe to this channel, and you follow retail, I'd highly recommend subscribing to Doomie Grunt's YouTube channel. He documents malls and other shopping centers, and does a really good job of that if you ask me.
The good news, is that their Huntington Mall store wasn't on that neighborhood store list. And to be honest, Huntington Mall has a better occupancy, than a lot of people realize. So I suspect the Macy's at Huntington Mall, will be safe for a while. It is sad that Charleston Town Center is struggling, but like you said unfortunately isn't totally surprising, as that mall has been losing stores for a while. I need to look up where Southridge, Capitol Street, and Park Place are. It is too bad Town Center is losing stores to those other shopping centers, but in a way that doesn't surprise me. I do think Town Center should consider some nontraditional businesses to go into it(i.e. offices to fill in some of the vacant spaces), since yes if a shopping center/mall doesn't innovate, that it will struggle. Circle Centre in Indianapolis had to do that btw(attract some offices to open in some of their vacant spaces), to hang on. Honestly to me, there's no doubt both Town Center and Circle Centre are past their peak as shopping malls.
It'd be nice if one day, Charleston could stabilize it's population decline, and even get to the point of at least 0-1% growth(even if it doesn't grow fast) once again. I don't know what it will take for Charleston to get back to those days again, but I do hope it is able to stop the trend of noticeable population declines each Census down the road.
One of Charleston's problems for growth is lack of land to expand on around it. At one time Charleston could have grown out and incorporated into Cross Lanes decades ago and chose not to.
Then more recently it could have expanded all the way down Corridor G and instead South Charleston will be doing that.
There's been no real large scale vision since the late 60's into the 70's when the downtown mall was being proposed.
That's 50 years ago. Think about that. Plus having over a decade of a mayor that dreamed the downtown scene of the 60's would return didn't help nor did a mayor arrested for crack before Marion Berry was hauled in.
Has there been an alternative universe then the population in current confines might have been able to be close to 100k.
UC would have around 10000 students and be a major catalyst for growth. The corridor and other areas would have been developed for newer and modern middle class housing instead of forcing people out to Teays.
Mountain Stage and music tourism would be a major player with brew pubs and an Asheville like scene.
And more importantly Charleston would have changed its name to be somewhat more unique and recognizable and not overlooked and unknown in the shadow of Charleston, SC. Might not be a popular opinion but the city needs to rebrand and a fresh name would be nice but they'd probably screw that up too.
One of Charleston's problems for growth is lack of land to expand on around it. At one time Charleston could have grown out and incorporated into Cross Lanes decades ago and chose not to.
Then more recently it could have expanded all the way down Corridor G and instead South Charleston will be doing that.
There's been no real large scale vision since the late 60's into the 70's when the downtown mall was being proposed.
That's 50 years ago. Think about that. Plus having over a decade of a mayor that dreamed the downtown scene of the 60's would return didn't help nor did a mayor arrested for crack before Marion Berry was hauled in.
Has there been an alternative universe then the population in current confines might have been able to be close to 100k.
UC would have around 10000 students and be a major catalyst for growth. The corridor and other areas would have been developed for newer and modern middle class housing instead of forcing people out to Teays.
Mountain Stage and music tourism would be a major player with brew pubs and an Asheville like scene.
And more importantly Charleston would have changed its name to be somewhat more unique and recognizable and not overlooked and unknown in the shadow of Charleston, SC. Might not be a popular opinion but the city needs to rebrand and a fresh name would be nice but they'd probably screw that up too.
Are you referring to Mayor Mike Roark's issues with the cocaine in the 80s LOL.
One of Charleston's problems for growth is lack of land to expand on around it. At one time Charleston could have grown out and incorporated into Cross Lanes decades ago and chose not to.
Then more recently it could have expanded all the way down Corridor G and instead South Charleston will be doing that.
There's been no real large scale vision since the late 60's into the 70's when the downtown mall was being proposed.
That's 50 years ago. Think about that. Plus having over a decade of a mayor that dreamed the downtown scene of the 60's would return didn't help nor did a mayor arrested for crack before Marion Berry was hauled in.
Has there been an alternative universe then the population in current confines might have been able to be close to 100k.
UC would have around 10000 students and be a major catalyst for growth. The corridor and other areas would have been developed for newer and modern middle class housing instead of forcing people out to Teays.
Mountain Stage and music tourism would be a major player with brew pubs and an Asheville like scene.
And more importantly Charleston would have changed its name to be somewhat more unique and recognizable and not overlooked and unknown in the shadow of Charleston, SC. Might not be a popular opinion but the city needs to rebrand and a fresh name would be nice but they'd probably screw that up too.
I can't imagine Charleston ever changing its' name, but I have always wanted them to embrace the nicknames Charly West or Chuck Town more so then they do. People can rally behind a nickname and give the city a casual vibe.
I can't imagine Charleston ever changing its' name, but I have always wanted them to embrace the nicknames Charly West or Chuck Town more so then they do. People can rally behind a nickname and give the city a casual vibe.
I LOVE the name Charly West (or is it Charley/Charlie? I’m not sure). I too would love to see more investment in this name from a marketing standpoint. #CharlyWest, billboards, murals for photo ops, digital campaigns, etc. Lots of fun opportunities there.
I LOVE the name Charly West (or is it Charley/Charlie? I’m not sure). I too would love to see more investment in this name from a marketing standpoint. #CharlyWest, billboards, murals for photo ops, digital campaigns, etc. Lots of fun opportunities there.
I agree, it's really a missed opportunity. As far as the spelling, I don't know which is better/correct. I like either one, and think either one would carry the same effect.
Charley West- It was a name that was coined if I recall by air traffic controllers/ pilots and it caught on. They call Yeager- Charley West and Charleston SC, Charley South!
Charley West- It was a name that was coined if I recall by air traffic controllers/ pilots and it caught on. They call Yeager- Charley West and Charleston SC, Charley South!
That’s really neat! Thank you for sharing.
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